Expressive sound synthesis?

[Max M.]

It's a well-known fact that 99.9% of synth/sampler users never tweak anything but use only presets

Hmmm.... A major plugin developer emailed me, "It's interesting how half of the audio community are geeks and the others are, well, basic users" and this 50/50 also seems closer to what I gather from blogs.

I won't insist (could be 80/20 for example), it's just usually overlooked that it's the geeks who are much more loud out there (while many of "presets users" never write even a single word about that anywhere and/or provide any feedback at all - they're usually simply "get it and use" kind of people by definition). So the proper estimation is somewhat hard, we cannot collect this information only from forums, blogs, comments, particular product feedback and so on (my "belief" is mostly formed at the times when I was engaged mainly as a sound-engineer).

[Michael L]

my "belief" is mostly formed at the times when I was engaged mainly as a sound-engineer

True, backintheday there was stricter 'division of labour.'

[camsr]

Someone should make a midi controller like a conductor's baton.

[Michael L]

A baton controller was developed by Max Matthews (the father of computer music and the 'Max' in Max/MSP). Here's a composition using it: http://www.csounds.com/mathews
But nowadays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwn7_Czh5Y0

[deastman]

Someone should make a midi controller like a conductor's baton.

Pretty much any type of controller you can imagine has already been attempted. At least twice.

[Ridan]

You may be onto something there deastman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmzbZ8pyPd0

[soundmodel]

Yeah and I think these "alt controllers" are fairly boring.

In one context they're not much more than a mod wheel (or multiple mod wheels) put into a different form factor.

Many great electronic artists don't even use piano keyboards, they use mouse and keyboard.

[pottering]

I had dismissed that Leap Motion thingie as just a gimmick to play crappy Wii-like games, but at $99 it is not THAT far ($ cost/benefit) from imperfect cheap MIDI controllers like Korg Nanos and the non-pro Beatstep.

Seems fiddly and hard to setup, but the small-form factor is a plus to me.

Also it is more widely available than boutique MIDI controllers. Cheaper than most as well.

Goddammit now I want one.

edit: I do agree that it doesn't seem to do that much beyond a glorified mod wheel, and if you setup to do more stuff, then it will require physical training, as Sendy said.
It makes sense that the more an interface does, more training it will require from the performer.

[soundmodel]

Here's something to check out:

http://sound-guru.com/software/mangle/

It's not perhaps expressive sound synthesis, since granular synthesis is fairly random.

But look/feel the user interface. I think it's brilliant. Musical and playful.

[Ronny Pries]

I firmly believe that any standard VA could be much more expressive with a more granular approach to velocity and aftertouch.

[xoxos]

aah, bumped.. how'd i miss this thread the first time..??

tangible example for your consideration..
https://xoxos.bandcamp.com/track/v-ther ... -the-bloom

i kinda do "big band" "ellington" inspired music, with synths.

that means, not one expressive part, but lots of them. listen. it's a very rough draft.

it took hours and hours and hours of automation to produce. months. it always does.

clavia's pitch stick is really quite a good interface, but few people get the opportunity to try one. i imagine these d-beam thingys are similar to a baton..

..but even though i *love* the pitch stick (it feels most like natural string vibrato, *if* you get a good one) the fact is, even a practiced hand isn't enough.

sure, in the olden days, a filter swell was as much expression as we wanted for synth sounds.

but now we want to combine all the textures we have heard, like, me wanting to do ellington with synths. for that, *all* the voices have to be animated and have character. and they have to be *precise* because that's what "electronic music from my head" is about - absolute, neurotic precision.

my accepted solution - consign yourself to realising it takes a significant amount of time to render. just accept this, deal with it, and get to work.

the album i want these songs to be in, i am projecting a completion date of several years. not 2017, not 2020. because, i have consigned myself to *getting it the way i want to be*

i don't want a machine to scan my brain and extricate my ideas. it simply, naturally will take a whole bunch of time to turn all those sentiments into automation curves, and adjust each one until they are as good as they can be.

stop believing the commercial dream that someone can sell you a product that will make it ideal. use what you've got - even voice to midi might not be precise enough, even if you are a practiced vocalist. it's fun, and maybe it is good enough for you. but that's that.. for what i want to do, it's going to take time, end of story.

listen.. i know eg. those vocals aren't perfect (headphones, ear infection.. some of those consonants really jump out..) - but understand, i wrangled all of that expressive character out of a machine. what you're hearing there isn't some gimmick, it is pure application.

[camsr]

xoxos it sounds amazing. Very 3d even in mono! What host do you use (is there something easier than FL studio for automation)?

[deastman]

Xoxos- great composition, very expressive!

I've drank the kool-aide, and I'm now a true believer in the power of an expressive controller.Something like a Seaboard or Linnstrument can greatly accelerate the creation of performances like the big band example above.

Going back to the original poster, I don't think the problem is that synthesis isn't expressive enough, our that we need more meta-controls and patch morphing. That just sounds like shining that synthesis is too complicated- sorry, but it is not. And I don't need my filter cutoff and waveform shape tied together under a single parameter labeled "brightness". No, the problem is most definitely about capturing an expressive performance. As Sendy said, we're talking about curves in space. You can enter those by hand, use your voice, or use an expressive controller. Whichever way you choose, the power is already out there at your fingertips. As xoxos said, just roll up your sleeves and get to work, and stop waiting for some new magic invention to solve your problems.

[xoxos]

stop waiting for some new magic invention to solve your problems.

you really did drink the kool-aid!

camsr - host is eXT, everyday features. maybe the "secret" is the tablet.. ergonomics make a big difference to my attitude about what can be done. relax! its going to take all month..

nowadays we say "wind up your sleeves"

[itoa]

I made something quite expressive Impaktor - transients are sampled from microphone and fed into a physical model. Take a look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjWT5ixO9Ck