KVR Audio

maudioradium · Post by **maudioradium** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:07 am

Hi,

Anyone else a fan of the particular mastering techniques of michael jacksons music? I'm referring to Dangerous / Bad types of albums.

It's hard to describe, but it's all quite dry and direct. They also used sort of crappy/cheap sounding samples sometimes but it adds to the whole thing. Speed demon, for instance, has this sort of cheap sounding plastic bass, a really dry engine at the start with some nice panning. The drums are particularly interesting - the "cymbal/hi-hat" what sounds like a sampled recording of a metal bar hitting another.

In between the claps, there's other very dry hits which I'm not sure what they are.

But, there's lots of tracks with this sort of unique sound and I've never really discussed it with anyone until now.

What are your thoughts?

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:13 am

His producer hated compression as I remember.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:20 am

Recently I listened to a radio channel only with Michael Jackson songs and I thought: "Wow! His songs are still groovy, funny and sound good, perfectly mixed and mastered!"

And I love all these crazy ad-libs that fit perfectly into the songs!

But as far as I know, there was a whole (big!) team involved in the production, so it's not a one-man-show!

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:21 am

arkmabat wrote:His producer hated compression as I remember.

"His producer" would be Quincy Jones, correct?

I don't know anything about the track but I suspect the sax synth is just a DX-7 with the infamous wind controller.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:25 am

There were many more people involved than Quincy Jones, many studio (session) musicians, mixing engineers, beat makers, mastering engineers etc. In the credits I always found at least 20 people...

And, wow, I can still dance to the beats 25 years later (especially I like the snares!)...

maudioradium · Post by **maudioradium** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:30 am

I just haven't heard anything remotely like it. It has a sort of cheap, dry, compressed feel to it with obscure samples used for anything (drums etc). But of course excellent melody lines. I wonder if there's any artist around that time with a similar feel. I'm not referring to general 80's music.

Who Is It, is yet another track with very dry drums (and genuinely crappy sound drum hits). It's almost like the trend that came in with "IDM" music with bleeps, clicks and so on..

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:36 am

maudioradium wrote:I wonder if there's any artist around that time with a similar feel. I'm not referring to general 80's music.

I cannot remember anyone. Michael Jackson's songs were always unique. That's why I love them so much - because what other producers would have eliminated as unwanted "noise" - all these breathing, screaming, yiihiiiee, ahh, uhh etc. - they integrated it perfectly into the songs! There are millions of trance songs out there which sound so similar (boring) - but whenever I hear a Michael Jackson song, I know immediately THAT is Michael Jackson...

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:37 am

Though quite a bit earlier, his best sounding album for me is "Thriller". The UAD Harrison EQ gets me closer to that sound than any other plugin I've used.

james0tucson · Post by **james0tucson** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:38 am

One thing I've noticed, when hearing deconstructed Michael Jackson mixes, is that individually, the tracks sound like something you would scrap. Especially the vocal tracks. He has intonation and diction problems and it sounds like he has absolutely no sense of rhythm. And then the whole thing comes together and produces a gestalt which is undeniably excellent. It's mystifying.

Had the same experience when I first heard Eric Clapton and Duane Allman tracks in isolation. OMG, you would not believe that either of these lads could play guitar *at all*, and would scoff at the idea that those tracks made it into a final mix

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:39 am

maudioradium wrote:Who Is It, is yet another track with very dry drums (and genuinely crappy sound drum hits). It's almost like the trend that came in with "IDM" music with bleeps, clicks and so on..

I have the "Dangerous" cassette (yes, cassette!) and I still like "Who is it?" because of all these lo-fi hip-hop drum samples! Listen to modern EDM songs, every kick & snare sounds so similar...

RunBeerRun · Post by **RunBeerRun** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:42 am

I was playing guitar with it but all I could hear was hi hat and shakers.

maudioradium · Post by **maudioradium** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:45 am

Owner of a lonely heart by Yes, is another track which has some shockingly bad samples. Samples so bad they don't even fade off properly - they literally stop like someone's just cut into it.

And by the same token, like with the michael jackson song tracks - they make other instruments and other elements silky smooth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELpmmeT69cE I always find the contrast almost endearing.

Here's speed demon to compare..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWkBI8a23A

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:47 am

My absolute favorite is "Liberian Girl"!

maudioradium · Post by **maudioradium** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:49 am

Tricky-Loops wrote:My absolute favorite is "Liberian Girl"!

Yeah that track doesn't have any tacky sample stabs. Perhaps there were different guys working on it. Someone said earlier they had full teams on these tracks..

Wikipedia goes into detail about who made what bits.. quite interesting..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberian_Girl
Written and composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Quincy Jones
Co-produced by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson: Solo and background vocals
John Robinson: Drums
Douglas Getschal: Drum programming
Paulinho Da Costa: Percussion
Christopher Currell: Synclavier
John Barnes, Michael Boddicker, David Paich, Larry Williams: Synthesizers
Steve Porcaro: Synthesizer programming
Letta Mbulu: Swahili chant
Rhythm arrangement by Michael Jackson, John Barnes and Quincy Jones
Synthesizer arrangement by Jerry Hey, John Barnes and Quincy Jones
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson and John Barnes
Swahili chant arrangement by Caiphus Semenya[/list]

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:57 am

james0tucson wrote:One thing I've noticed, when hearing deconstructed Michael Jackson mixes, is that individually, the tracks sound like something you would scrap. Especially the vocal tracks. He has intonation and diction problems and it sounds like he has absolutely no sense of rhythm. And then the whole thing comes together and produces a gestalt which is undeniably excellent. It's mystifying.

Had the same experience when I first heard Eric Clapton and Duane Allman tracks in isolation. OMG, you would not believe that either of these lads could play guitar *at all*, and would scoff at the idea that those tracks made it into a final mix

I was once in a session with Abe Laboriel Sr., who played bass on Bad/Dangerous, and I had a similar experience as you. When I was out in the room with him, he exuded groove, vibe, and FUN. Soloing him in the mix, though, sounded pretty lifeless. Anyway, the end product was about as good as a recording can get and it showed me that my ideas of perfection were not necessarily in line with what makes a good final product.

Michael jackson mastering/feeling