KVR Audio

heloo · Post by **heloo** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:52 pm

Hello,
I like a synth from a song and i told a producer from an online marketplace that i want this synth for a song. He sampled now the exact same synth. Is it legal to make me a song with this synth?

I dont know if the synth, from the original song, was a preset or a manufactured one from the producer himself.

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:12 pm

"Is it legal" is a wrong question. The correct question is "can you be sued for it"? Because the decision belongs to original artist or right holder and not anybody else.

If it's a part of song, it's generally not free for sampling. If it's a preset, you can get the original preset as well

If not, the producer might have put a significant effort or creativity into it.

Personally I have liberal approach to sampling, though - if it's a generic and not distinctive sound, it could be as well a field recording.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:22 pm

When you say "he sampled me the same synth" do you mean the sound, the tune, or what exactly?

heloo · Post by **heloo** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:26 pm

thanks,
@dj,
Yes he sampled it from the song itself.
If it´s a preset, i have no idea where to find it.

@thecontrolcentre,

The sound of the synth, for example if you listen to 2 Unlimited - No limit, the synth that you can hear from the start,
not the melody of the synth.

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:32 pm

Sampling a sound is not illegal, because if it was pretty much everyone in this business would be in deep trouble. Most if not all pianos and acoustic instruments are sampled. There is no difference in sampling a synth compared to a piano or something else.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:52 pm

ATN69 wrote:Sampling a sound is not illegal

If you sample anything which originated as a recording, then it can be. The copyright laws that are primarily relevant to sampling are those which pertain to the reuse of someone else's recorded audio.

That means sampling existing samplers, romplers, and anything similar that relies on the playback of original versions of derivations of existing recorded material without permission is a breach of copyright, as is sampling a recording of a synth without permission.
Purely generative synths (either analogue or those calculating waveforms in realtime) are free to record 'new' because there are no recordings involved.

There's obviously fuzzy where this meets calculated and/or pre-stored waveforms which were never recorded as such, though; there's an argument that these are still protected as data.

The other issue might be making a recording of someone else's preset sound, eg the factory sounds. However that's a much more specific case which isnt covered explicitly in most copyright law, though some aspects may still be applicable. That doesnt mean a manufacturer wouldnt try and prevent someone reselling samples of those sounds.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:56 pm

heloo wrote:Yes he sampled it from the song itself.

That sample needs to be cleared, otherwise your publication will violate the recording rights of the original publisher.
http://diymusician.cdbaby.com/music-rig ... our-music/

ATN69 · Post by **ATN69** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:14 pm

Well..what I am talking about is sampling a pure sound, like a preset from a Prophet V, a clarinet or a Steinway D grand piano. Sampling from a record is strictly speaking not allowed without permission from the copyright owner. But from what I read at the top the sound was sampled from the exact same synth and not from any recording.

https://www.stim.se/en/find-an-answer/f ... permission

nineofkings · Post by **nineofkings** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:15 pm

I'm here to throw a wrench into things. Recent court rulings may have changed what's allowed to be sampled (from recordings) and what's not.

A brief timeline of sampling and US copyright law:
80's - go nuts
90's - be careful, if it's recognizable it must be cleared but maybe you can get away with it
2005-2016 - any sampling of someone else's song at all, no matter how short, is infringement unless it's cleared, f*ck you
2016 - maybe not, if it's not distinctive and unique

A recent court case ruled in favor of "de minimis" sampling with no need for clearance if the sample is not unique enough to merit having copyright protection. http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/20 ... adonna.htm

The takeaway seems to be that if you want to sample the whole riff you'd need clearance, but if you want to sample a single hit and use it in a transformative way you're in the clear.

heloo · Post by **heloo** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:43 pm

@ATN, sorry, i was unclear, he sampled the synth from the recording

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:07 pm

nineofkings wrote:I'm here to throw a wrench into things. Recent court rulings may have changed what's allowed to be sampled (from recordings) and what's not.

A brief timeline of sampling and US copyright law:
80's - go nuts
90's - be careful, if it's recognizable it must be cleared but maybe you can get away with it
2005-2016 - any sampling of someone else's song at all, no matter how short, is infringement unless it's cleared, f*ck you
2016 - maybe not, if it's not distinctive and unique

A recent court case ruled in favor of "de minimis" sampling with no need for clearance if the sample is not unique enough to merit having copyright protection. http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/20 ... adonna.htm

The takeaway seems to be that if you want to sample the whole riff you'd need clearance, but if you want to sample a single hit and use it in a transformative way you're in the clear.

Interesting! I hadn't heard about that ruling. It seems so sane and reasonable, which is why I find it so improbable.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:35 pm

heloo wrote:thanks,
@dj,
Yes he sampled it from the song itself.
If it´s a preset, i have no idea where to find it.

@thecontrolcentre,

The sound of the synth, for example if you listen to 2 Unlimited - No limit, the synth that you can hear from the start,
not the melody of the synth.

If its sampled from the record then a commercial release would need clearance from the artist and/or label (depending on how recognisable the sound is). You're not sampling a synth, you're sampling a recording of a synth.

heloo · Post by **heloo** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:54 pm

Is this (commercial release) for youtube videos too? I wanted to have only a short intro with that synth for my videos.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:23 pm

heloo wrote:Is this (commercial release) for youtube videos too? I wanted to have only a short intro with that synth for my videos.

I wouldnt worry about it as long as you're not selling anything.

heloo · Post by **heloo** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:26 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote:
heloo wrote:Is this (commercial release) for youtube videos too? I wanted to have only a short intro with that synth for my videos.
I wouldnt worry about it as long as you're not selling anything.

But i earn revenue with my videos, still ok?

Is it legal to sample a synth?