KVR Audio

Terrafractyl · Post by **Terrafractyl** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:33 pm

recursive one wrote: Thanks for the insights! I wasn't aware of that, for some reasons I used to think that linear phase eq is always preferable for low end, especially in psybass where the starting phase of the sound is super improtant. Anyway, I'm by no means a bass expert. I use an equalizer from Izotope Ozone on my bass (it is the only linear phase equalizer I have) and this seems to be an improvement over Studio One stock eq.

Yeah I went deep down this rabbit hole a while ago.

At some point a switched all my EQs on Kick and Bass to Linear because I wanted that extra bit of loudness/rms in my basslines, but then some months later after a bit of research I did a blind test listening to some Kick and Bass, and I realized I actually could hear the ringing added by the linear phase EQ. It took me a while to hear it, as is often the case with such subtle things, but once heard it can't be unheard.

Here is a picture of what happens when an impulse response is put through a Linear Phase vs Minimum phase EQ. obviously its not a kick drum or bassline, but as I said the sharper the transient the more the linear EQ will kinda 'blur' both sides of the waveform. Not ideal for clarity.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Thanks for your tips, Felix! Wonder what the original, unprocessed waveform looks like here.

Anyway, I'm afraid that my basslines have a long way to go before the artifacts of linear phase equalizer will actually matter anything serious (I mean if you say these effects are hardly noticeable I think they are overshadowed by other problems my basslines may have

). Will keep this in mind amyway.

Terrafractyl · Post by **Terrafractyl** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:45 pm

haha I know what you mean!
but really I think you have to look at every tiny piece of the puzzle as useful. They all add up in the end.
Us psytrancers have taken the productions levels of Kicks and Basslines to such extreme levels of clarity and punch, that I think a lot of other producers would find us crazy when we start talking about these things. Also I think your basslines sound pretty good my friend!
I definitely don't think I've got this stuff down either, but yeah research, experimentation and persistence is what makes any bedroom producer become the next game changer.

Oh and for the pics above the waveform is an impulse response, so its not even really a waveform. An impulse response is basically a signal of 0's and 1's that goes: 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0....
So basically its the 'quickest' audio signal you can have. In DSP world, this is used to test many different things, in this instance the impulse gives you the sharpest transient possible, to really show how the EQ/signal processing reacts.

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:24 pm

Terrafractyl wrote: Oh and for the pics above the waveform is an impulse response, so its not even really a waveform. An impulse response is basically a signal of 0's and 1's that goes: 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0....
So basically its the 'quickest' audio signal you can have. In DSP world, this is used to test many different things, in this instance the impulse gives you the sharpest transient possible, to really show how the EQ/signal processing reacts.

Thanks. Now I need to wrap my head around what your pics may mean. I see that the linear phase eq adds some quiet signal before the test singnal as such. Need some reading about how linear phase equalizers actually work

I'm often chatting with a fellow psy producer about various production aspects and guess what? at least 50% of the time we are discussing the kbbb. Crazy indeed. Some people say that psytrance is boring and lacks creativity because the same kbbb is used all over the place but I believe that the kbbb should be just done right.

Terrafractyl · Post by **Terrafractyl** » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:41 pm

yep we certainly like to obsess over our KBBB! but spend enough time on a dance floor in front of a big rig listening to it done right and it becomes clear why. Its just awesome.
I like most people, have a tendency to 'sometimes' get complacent with this stuff, (I have been writing music with kbbb for 15 years or something now, and sometimes it bums me out spending so much time on it still)
but...I have a very pedantic psytrancer friend, an amazing producer that has yet to release or even play anything he has written, but man he keeps me on my toes when it comes to this stuff, every now and again he really makes me sit back and work on it again.
Or sometimes we just argue about stupid things like linear phase EQ's.
I appreciate it a lot!

biggins · Post by **biggins** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:37 pm

Allo,

As the psytrance thread has got the kick bass side of things I thought i'd post this tutorial which has been floating around on Stalkbook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSzP2_AO0DQ

IN it he uses linear phase BUT worth bearing in mind that the use in the vid sparked a long discussion that pretty much covered what Terrafractyl posted previously (i.e. ringing and artifacts caused by the LP EQ

). It's a worthwhile 20mins though.

ps: hopefully this didn't get posted already.

Distorted Horizon · Post by **Distorted Horizon** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:37 pm

Terrafractyl wrote:Yeah I went deep down this rabbit hole a while ago.

Thank you very much for sharing the knowledge

biggins wrote:Allo,

As the psytrance thread has got the kick bass side of things I thought i'd post this tutorial which has been floating around on Stalkbook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSzP2_AO0DQ

IN it he uses linear phase BUT worth bearing in mind that the use in the vid sparked a long discussion that pretty much covered what Terrafractyl posted previously (i.e. ringing and artifacts caused by the LP EQ ). It's a worthwhile 20mins though.

ps: hopefully this didn't get posted already.

Great vid!! Gave me few tips and ideas that I had to try immediately. Got something to glue the bottom of my tracks a bit more.. Like others have

biggins · Post by **biggins** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:33 am

yeh, there are a few good tips in that vid.

glad you found it useful!

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:28 am

Yes, I know that vid. And know the guy who made it, he makes amazing music. He was playing a set of his own tunes at a psy rave in my town few months ago, at the club PA his basslines literally blew me away.

biggins · Post by **biggins** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:31 pm

Nice

The vid. has certainly helped myself and a few friends here get a better handle on the whole kick bass thing. Which is nice.

kbbbkbbbkbbb....etc >>:)

Distorted Horizon · Post by **Distorted Horizon** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:48 am

recursive one wrote:his basslines literally blew me away.

Sounds devastating

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:27 pm

Ok, i think I'll unlikely make this one any better ... Trying to match the current proggy sound is quite a hard task

https://soundcloud.com/recursion-loop/s ... he-machine

I tried to make something similar to these groovy basslines like E-Clip, Relativ and similar, didn't quite succeed but anyway.

What do you think?

Distorted Horizon · Post by **Distorted Horizon** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:17 am

recursive one wrote:What do you think?

It sounded like.. You

Personally I love wandering basslines. Static *bbb *bbb is pretty boring

And like in you previous songs too, what I really like in your song(s) is that soundscape is full and there's alot to hear, without it being muddy or overfilled etc.

Distorted Horizon · Post by **Distorted Horizon** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:19 am

Here's my latest too

https://soundcloud.com/distortedhorizon ... rizon-ants

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:14 pm

Distorted Horizon wrote:
recursive one wrote:What do you think?
It sounded like.. You

Personally I love wandering basslines. Static *bbb *bbb is pretty boring

And like in you previous songs too, what I really like in your song(s) is that soundscape is full and there's alot to hear, without it being muddy or overfilled etc.

Thanks

Now I do prefer static basslines (though I've already made a new version of that track with a bit more groovy bassline).

And truth to be told, a proper full-on bassline jumping over octaves and changing notes at each bar is extremely hard to make right. I decided to settle upon one-note proggy patterns as for now.

THE Psytrance thread