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mhog wrote:
SampleScience wrote:The song is good, but like all Depeche Mode tracks you have to give it a bit of time. It grows on you after a couple of listens. As for the lyrics, English is not my native language so I can't tell if they are being sarcastic or serious. The video leaves me even more clueless, if someone care to explain, I'm all ears.
Well, both serious and sarcastic, the lyrics are clear. They are British and two of them live in the U.S. It is clearly about the Brexit and Trump, as stated in the video I posted on page 1. In regard of "Where's the Revolution", they claim, among other things:

"the world is in a big mess at the moment, you can't pretend nothing is happening. We were all really depressed by the outcome of the Brexit referendum. Most people who voted did not even understand what it meant, they were not well informed. The things Trump is saying are cruel and heartless, they sound very similar to those someone was saying in 1935, and it didn't work out very well."

Of course, as always happens, DM lyrics and messages can be read on a double level: "politics" (class struggle) or "personal" (sex, drugs, love, whatever). See "masters and servants", "policy of truth", "music for the masses", "everything counts" etc. etc.

It is also true that, although "rich rockstars" now, they've always been socialist/labourist, more or less as in "British socialism". The video is somehow ironic and slightly bitter: there's no crowd, it is an empty place with only ghosts of the revolution, it looks like a lonely nightmare. Marx, Engels and Lenin (or Fidel?... who knows...) spinning around rather than moving forward "on the train of revolution" one hundred years after (Russian Revolution: 1917-2017). "Socialism or Barbarism", this is their message, I guess.

the pulpit:

Image

the train:

Image
The song is not about Trump or Brexit specifically. The song is generally about how blindly masses follow the propaganda. The October revolution was taken as an example, where Lenin blindly followed external propaganda (Marx), whether blindly or not. The Russian tsar and his family were shot dead. The (external) idea of the revolution was to destabilize Tsar's Russia. Once Russia has become communist USSR, the country was isolated. Probably the intention was to weaken the country as possible, but the effect was the opposite (or not? this is very subjective). Later on, when the communist Russia has become too strong, the process was repeated again.


“Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs” - Joseph Goebbels

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Igro wrote:The song is not about Trump or Brexit specifically. The song is generally about how blindly masses follow the propaganda.
Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda.

Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.

It would be good if Depeche or some other artist penned a lyric about social media, facebook et al, that having likes and clicks on that doesn't actually equal any actual power. We are all a bit blind to now that having 100000+ likes on Facebook, or Twitter followers, thinking that it actually means something.

Depeche should get back to making music for the masses :borg:

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Numanoid wrote:
Igro wrote: Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
So that's a part of revolution then, maybe?

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Numanoid wrote: Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda. Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
You are mixing mass media (different opinions) and propaganda (single thought).
Trump and the Brexit = propaganda. Pseudofascist propaganda, to be exact ("neo-populism", for the politically correct sensitive souls).

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mhog wrote:
Numanoid wrote: Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda. Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
You are mixing mass media (different opinions) and propaganda (single thought).
Trump and the Brexit = propaganda. Pseudofascist propaganda, to be exact ("neo-populism", for the politically correct sensitive souls).
Mass media has different opinions? As far as I know, every single USA news channel destroyed Trump as possible. Media is always under control. And at some point it is controlled by a single authority (which can be a group). So media IS a part of propaganda now.

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Numanoid wrote:
Igro wrote:The song is not about Trump or Brexit specifically. The song is generally about how blindly masses follow the propaganda.
Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda.

Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
...in polls... propaganda was the reason trumpy won and brexit happened

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I'm thinking, if not agreeing with something call it propaganda.

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AnX wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
Igro wrote:The song is not about Trump or Brexit specifically. The song is generally about how blindly masses follow the propaganda.
Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda.

Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
...in polls... propaganda was the reason trumpy won and brexit happened
Do you mean that people listened to propaganda, but ignored it and made the opposite choice?
Also Numanoid is right here about masses doesn't always follow propaganda. Which doesn't mean they followed the "other" propaganda. They just stopped being too silly, maybe? Used some rational and logic?

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mhog wrote:You are mixing mass media (different opinions) and propaganda (single thought).
If this new single by DM would have been as good as P:Machinery I would forgive everything

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Igro wrote:
mhog wrote:
Numanoid wrote: Both Trump and Brexit shows that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda. Media outlets had more or less all Clinton winning and Britain staying in the EU.
You are mixing mass media (different opinions) and propaganda (single thought).
Trump and the Brexit = propaganda. Pseudofascist propaganda, to be exact ("neo-populism", for the politically correct sensitive souls).
Mass media has different opinions? As far as I know, every single USA news channel destroyed Trump as possible. Media is always under control. And at some point it is controlled by a single authority (which can be a group). So media IS a part of propaganda now.
This is a mistake a logician would call "petitio principii", "non sequitur" (or smth). Infact Clinton won almost 3,000,000 more votes than Trump. If Trump victory showed that the voting masses doesn't follow propaganda, he would have won, say, 80-90%, not 49% or so. At the same time, if Media were "part of propaganda" or even "propaganda", Clinton would have got 80-90% of all votes. That's how propaganda works: it brings mass consensus up to 80-90% thanks to fear and basic feelings. Propaganda just USES the media, it is NOT the media. In America propaganda has been (always) used only to justify war (via religious archetypes, patriotism and such crap through the media), because of busine$$ of course. For the rest, the US remains a solid democracy, Trump or not Trump, as far as I can see.

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mhog wrote:
At the same time, if Media were "part of propaganda" or even "propaganda", Clinton would have got 80-90% of all votes. That's how propaganda works: it brings mass consensus up to 80-90% thanks to fear and basic feelings. Propaganda just USES the media, it is NOT the media. In America propaganda has been (always) used only to justify war (via religious archetypes, patriotism and such crap through the media), because of busine$$ of course. For the rest, the US remains a solid democracy, Trump or not Trump, as far as I can see.
If some particular media belongs to someone who is opposed to some candidates, then it turns to a propaganda channel when needed. Rupert Murdoch, for instance (Fox news, Sky and so on).
Also, you say that mass propaganda always win, but this is not the case after Trumps win.

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Allegedly, Sascha of KMFDM said that KMFDM stood for "Kill MotherFucking Depeche Mode."

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SODDI wrote:Allegedly, Sascha of KMFDM said that KMFDM stood for "Kill MotherFucking Depeche Mode."
very old joke :lol:

Actually, Kein Mehrheit Furh Die Mitleid = No Pity for the Majority

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mhog wrote:
SampleScience wrote:The song is good, but like all Depeche Mode tracks you have to give it a bit of time. It grows on you after a couple of listens. As for the lyrics, English is not my native language so I can't tell if they are being sarcastic or serious. The video leaves me even more clueless, if someone care to explain, I'm all ears.
Well, both serious and sarcastic, the lyrics are clear. They are British and two of them live in the U.S. It is clearly about the Brexit and Trump, as stated in the video I posted on page 1. In regard of "Where's the Revolution", they claim, among other things[...]
Thank you, that really clears things out and now I feel I get their message.

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Igro wrote:
mhog wrote: If some particular media belongs to someone who is opposed to some candidates, then it turns to a propaganda channel when needed. Rupert Murdoch, for instance (Fox news, Sky and so on).
Also, you say that mass propaganda always win, but this is not the case after Trumps win.
Well, "propaganda" is not negative per se. For instance, what do you think of anti-AIDS propaganda in Africa, anti-racist propaganda in the U.S., anti-war propaganda... and the likes? Would you call it "negative"? Alas, sometimes in history some sly politicians spread hate through fear (usually thanks to economic crisis and consequent insicurity). That's what Trump propaganda and pro-Brexit propaganda is. And that's what the DM "Where's the Revolution" song talks of, I guess. Infact they talk of "religion", "patriotic junkies" and "terror as a weapon". Now, since they are three British leftish socialists, two of them living in America, I doubt they are referring to ISIS propaganda... :roll:

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