When did "pop music" become synonymous with "music"?
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- KVRist
- 168 posts since 18 Oct, 2017
Ravel should be mentioned here. He wrote, I suppose, Boléro as a parody on repetition in classical music, but he was often misunderstood by his peers afaik.
'From the start of his career, Ravel appeared calmly indifferent to blame or praise.'
'During the first years of the new century, Ravel made five attempts to win France's most prestigious prize for young composers, the Prix de Rome, past winners of which included Berlioz, Gounod, Bizet, Massenet and Debussy. In 1900 Ravel was eliminated in the first round; in 1901 he won the second prize for the competition. In 1902 and 1903 he won nothing: according to the musicologist Paul Landormy, the judges suspected Ravel of making fun of them by submitting cantatas so academic as to seem like parodies. In 1905 Ravel, by now thirty, competed for the last time, inadvertently causing a furore. He was eliminated in the first round, which even critics unsympathetic to his music, including Lalo, denounced as unjustifiable. The press's indignation grew when it emerged that the senior professor at the Conservatoire, Charles Lenepveu, was on the jury, and only his students were selected for the final round; his insistence that this was pure coincidence was not well received. L'affaire Ravel became a national scandal, leading to the early retirement of Dubois and his replacement by Fauré, appointed by the government to carry out a radical reorganisation of the Conservatoire.'
Ravel wrote Boléro late in his carreer (1928), it became one of the most popular tunes of its time and soon he began to loathe it:
'Ravel commented to Arthur Honegger, one of Les Six, "I've written only one masterpiece – Boléro. Unfortunately there's no music in it."'
NB 'Ravel was among the first composers to recognise the potential of recording to bring their music to a wider public. From the 1920s, despite limited technique as a pianist or conductor, he took part in recordings of several of his works; others were made under his supervision.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Ravel
'From the start of his career, Ravel appeared calmly indifferent to blame or praise.'
'During the first years of the new century, Ravel made five attempts to win France's most prestigious prize for young composers, the Prix de Rome, past winners of which included Berlioz, Gounod, Bizet, Massenet and Debussy. In 1900 Ravel was eliminated in the first round; in 1901 he won the second prize for the competition. In 1902 and 1903 he won nothing: according to the musicologist Paul Landormy, the judges suspected Ravel of making fun of them by submitting cantatas so academic as to seem like parodies. In 1905 Ravel, by now thirty, competed for the last time, inadvertently causing a furore. He was eliminated in the first round, which even critics unsympathetic to his music, including Lalo, denounced as unjustifiable. The press's indignation grew when it emerged that the senior professor at the Conservatoire, Charles Lenepveu, was on the jury, and only his students were selected for the final round; his insistence that this was pure coincidence was not well received. L'affaire Ravel became a national scandal, leading to the early retirement of Dubois and his replacement by Fauré, appointed by the government to carry out a radical reorganisation of the Conservatoire.'
Ravel wrote Boléro late in his carreer (1928), it became one of the most popular tunes of its time and soon he began to loathe it:
'Ravel commented to Arthur Honegger, one of Les Six, "I've written only one masterpiece – Boléro. Unfortunately there's no music in it."'
NB 'Ravel was among the first composers to recognise the potential of recording to bring their music to a wider public. From the 1920s, despite limited technique as a pianist or conductor, he took part in recordings of several of his works; others were made under his supervision.'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Ravel
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- KVRist
- 168 posts since 18 Oct, 2017
Btw Ravel has a striking resemblance to Robert de Niro which could have added to the confusion of their critics, I suppose 
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- Boss Lovin' DR
- 12624 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
jancivil wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9xSoaXPPg
Reminded me of this one. People talk about Dave Lombardo being a great speed metal drummer. He's got nothing on this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA3l9U6dcQA
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I had a roommate who washed and dried clothes incessantly for a time.
I patterned a track finally after what the washing machine did, which was in 5/4 as far as I was concerned.
it was go crazy or deal...
I patterned a track finally after what the washing machine did, which was in 5/4 as far as I was concerned.
it was go crazy or deal...
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- addled muppet weed
- 105872 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
hehvurt wrote:washing machine in 5/4? cant have been a zanussi. strictly 4/4 from them.
probably a Whirlpool.
IIRC one of the cycles truncated to 9/8 or maybe 19/16...
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
IE: that isn't music!rp314 wrote:With the advent of Sound...
actually Varese, and iirc this was shortly before the 25-yrs period of 'no music from me' he started calling himself an organizer of sounds rather than a composer of music.
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- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
Oh yes, it is music.jancivil wrote:IE: that isn't music!rp314 wrote:With the advent of Sound...
actually Varese, and iirc this was shortly before the 25-yrs period of 'no music from me' he started calling himself an organizer of sounds rather than a composer of music.
Fernando (FMR)
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- addled muppet weed
- 105872 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
jazz washing machines, whoda thunk it?jancivil wrote:hehvurt wrote:washing machine in 5/4? cant have been a zanussi. strictly 4/4 from them.
probably a Whirlpool.
IIRC one of the cycles truncated to 9/8 or maybe 19/16...
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I'm the very opposite of the person you'll have to convince.fmr wrote:Oh yes, it is music.jancivil wrote:IE: that isn't music!rp314 wrote:With the advent of Sound...
actually Varese, and iirc this was shortly before the 25-yrs period of 'no music from me' he started calling himself an organizer of sounds rather than a composer of music.
I was working with the rhetoric:
Q: 'When did "pop music" become synonymous with "music"?'
A: 'With the advent of Sound.'
IE: when that started happening the stick-in-the-mud might say 'That isn't music!'.
