RealiVox : The Ladies (K5 Pop Choir Lib) ( Wow ! )

[DrumAddict]

it is true it sound really nice...
but the price...!!!

The price is ok when you consider it is a 7GB sample library, plus the expense of hiring the vocalists, studio to record them and the use of top end mics(probably) plus the developer has licensed NI's Kontakt Player which is not cheap, believe me. It costs a fortune to license NI's Kontakt Player, plus I think the dev gets charged for every serial number supplied by NI.
It sounds and looks like a really good, useful product.

I have to say I agree with Imyslef. Not that I doubt it's a good product -- the demos sound excellent and the reviews have generally been quite good. Several times I've wavered, and almost pulled the trigger, but even when it's reduced by $100 to $299, it is quite expensive for me. Even assuming it's worth every penny, I just don't have that many pennies for what for me would be only a niche library.

Synthmagic, you have a point, but ultimately the price someone will pay is based on the perceived benefit, not the developer's production costs.

I was wondering whether the developer might consider a modular approach like the one offered by Bela D Media

http://www.beladmedia.com/le-program/

whereby he slices an instrument up into elements which can be bought individually. So here, each of the Ladies could be sold individually. I for one would be much more likely to buy in that case.

don't know yet where to start , because you needs to know backgrounds !

unfortunately i did not have a needs for the ladies bymyselves as it is not in my music style , otherwise i had buy them !

the price is definetly ok and correct , look arround for voice and choir librarys and compare the price !

you probably don't know that Mike Greene (or other sample library developer) needs to pay for licensing and encoding the library to NI that it runs in Kontakt Player ! and it depends on how many licenses you need , library size etc etc , and believe me thats really not that cheap ! than add the recording costs , editing , scripting , marketing and other things ! he can't sell it to low comparing to all the costs ! as synthmagic has said it here already !

its also not that easy now to split the library by the ladies , that you have the ladies separately , because the library are licensed as the Full Ladies Library ! he would needs to start to make it new separatly for each lady than you would needs to licensing again each lady to NI when it should run for the Kontakt Player , or he needs to leave the user which don't own the Full Kontakt Version !

to your Bela D statement the LE Versions (Light Edition) are more an teaser Pack which has limitations about the content etc.
its more that you can try the bela d products and if it fits your needs you can upgrade to the Full Version !

[lingyai]

it is true it sound really nice...
but the price...!!!

The price is ok when you consider it is a 7GB sample library, plus the expense of hiring the vocalists, studio to record them and the use of top end mics(probably) plus the developer has licensed NI's Kontakt Player which is not cheap, believe me. It costs a fortune to license NI's Kontakt Player, plus I think the dev gets charged for every serial number supplied by NI.
It sounds and looks like a really good, useful product.

I have to say I agree with Imyslef. Not that I doubt it's a good product -- the demos sound excellent and the reviews have generally been quite good. Several times I've wavered, and almost pulled the trigger, but even when it's reduced by $100 to $299, it is quite expensive for me. Even assuming it's worth every penny, I just don't have that many pennies for what for me would be only a niche library.

Synthmagic, you have a point, but ultimately the price someone will pay is based on the perceived benefit, not the developer's production costs.

I was wondering whether the developer might consider a modular approach like the one offered by Bela D Media

http://www.beladmedia.com/le-program/

whereby he slices an instrument up into elements which can be bought individually. So here, each of the Ladies could be sold individually. I for one would be much more likely to buy in that case.

don't know yet where to start , because you needs to know backgrounds !

unfortunately i did not have a needs for the ladies bymyselves as it is not in my music style , otherwise i had buy them !

the price is definetly ok and correct , look arround for voice and choir librarys and compare the price !

you probably don't know that Mike Greene (or other sample library developer) needs to pay for licensing and encoding the library to NI that it runs in Kontakt Player ! and it depends on how many licenses you need , library size etc etc , and believe me thats really not that cheap ! than add the recording costs , editing , scripting , marketing and other things ! he can't sell it to low comparing to all the costs ! as synthmagic has said it here already !

its also not that easy now to split the library by the ladies , that you have the ladies separately , because the library are licensed as the Full Ladies Library ! he would needs to start to make it new separatly for each lady than you would needs to licensing again each lady to NI when it should run for the Kontakt Player , or he needs to leave the user which don't own the Full Kontakt Version !

to your Bela D statement the LE Versions (Light Edition) are more an teaser Pack which has limitations about the content etc.
its more that you can try the bela d products and if it fits your needs you can upgrade to the Full Version !

As I said, I'm sure it's good; but ultimately, people buy after weighing up their own backgrounds (costs and benefits to them), not the developer's background (i.e. his or her costs / biz strategy). I'm glad for and a bit envious of those who've bought it, but it's out of my own price range for what it is. Instead, I'm making due with a "poor man's version" called LadyVox, by PureMagnetik

http://www.puremagnetik.com/index.php?o ... =208#10022

which I was lucky enough to get for $12 before they apparently stopped selling the Kontakt version (now it seems only available for Ableton). Doesn't seem to have near the vocal / phrase variety of The Ladies; having said that, for me, it does a really nice job with non-choral oohs and aahs. YMMV, etc.

My suggestion was actually addressed to the developer. However, if what you say is true, then I reckon The Ladies won't be sliced up the way the Bela D stuff is. (What you say about the Bela D offer is inaccurate, actually, but it's a tangent and I don't want to get into a pillow fight over it). At core, I'm suggesting that some price drop might be compensated for by higher volumes.

Anyway, dev's call. However he does it, I hope he succeeds with the product, because it looks really good -- even if I'm left with my own nose against the candy store window.

[updog]

I was able to download this last night, and I love it! With some tweaking and work this tool can do so much.

Inspired by the "Mmquiring Minds", I started working on something to get acquainted with the software. I noticed that for myself, having solo vocalists is nice, but layering is where The Ladies can be unleashed to make any type of legato choir.

I thought I was only going to use Teresa, but you can use pretty much any voice for layering. Everything obviously depends on what type of stuff you want to do, but for any soundtrack-type music, this is definitely what I was looking for.

Here's something I made... You might very well recognize the soundtrack which inspired me on this one. I wanted to share this to show you what else The Ladies can be, besides that solo vocal line for the uplifting commercial rock piece. all vocals are The Ladies... (it's uploaded on my dubstep channel, please forgive me!)

https://soundcloud.com/no-dice-dubstep/the-absence

[Mike Greene]

As I said, I'm sure it's good; but ultimately, people buy after weighing up their own backgrounds (costs and benefits to them), not the developer's background (i.e. his or her costs / biz strategy). I'm glad for and a bit envious of those who've bought it, but it's out of my own price range for what it is. Instead, I'm making due with a "poor man's version" called LadyVox, by PureMagnetik

http://www.puremagnetik.com/index.php?o ... =208#10022

which I was lucky enough to get for $12 before they apparently stopped selling the Kontakt version (now it seems only available for Ableton). Doesn't seem to have near the vocal / phrase variety of The Ladies; having said that, for me, it does a really nice job with non-choral oohs and aahs. YMMV, etc.

My suggestion was actually addressed to the developer. However, if what you say is true, then I reckon The Ladies won't be sliced up the way the Bela D stuff is. (What you say about the Bela D offer is inaccurate, actually, but it's a tangent and I don't want to get into a pillow fight over it). At core, I'm suggesting that some price drop might be compensated for by higher volumes.

Anyway, dev's call. However he does it, I hope he succeeds with the product, because it looks really good -- even if I'm left with my own nose against the candy store window.

You're absolutely right that the price a product will sell for is ultimately determined by what the customers are willing to pay, as opposed to what a developer's cost justifications are. I could give all sorts of reasons why Realivox costs what it does, but it doesn't change the fact that people can only pay what they can afford.

On the other hand, Drum Addict gives some very real costs that are associated on a per copy basis. If I lowered the price of The Ladies to $100, for instance, my profit would only be about half that. In addition to the Kontakt license fee, I also pay a per-copy royalty to the singers, as well as few other costs that apply to each sale.

It's tricky, because it's certainly true that sales would increase if I lowered the price. But there's also a fairly large segment of the market for whom $295 is pretty much a no brainer. (Crazy as that may sound.) I sometimes wish there was a way to make a sliding scale for pricing, where film composers with lots of money paid one price, while people with less money paid another price. But it would be impossible to implement, plus it would take some of the luster off for those who pay the higher price.

In fact, that's the main reason I've stuck to this consistent price, ever since Realivox's release. I'm one of those guys who paid a ton of money for East West libraries, only to see them way cheaper just a few months later. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to do that to my customers. So even if I thought lowering the price of Realivox would bring in more profits, I still wouldn't do it, because of loyalty to my existing customers.

It's been suggested that I release the singers individually, which would make Realivox more affordable. I like the idea in theory . . . but a major strength of Realivox is the *combination* of singers. As timing would have it, this is demonstrated really well with the piece Updog just posted. He says he thought Teresa would be all he would use, but because the other singers were also at his fingertips, he was able to do so much more. That's where a lot of the real power of Realivox comes in, in that the singers can be both solo and part of a group. It's not until you actually have the full set in your hands that this becomes clear. Which is why I'm reluctant to sell the singers individually.

Please don't interpret anything I've said as dismissing your opinions, by the way. What you've been saying is absolutely true and hearing your (and others) opinions is very valuable to me. In fact, because of things you and others have been saying, I'm looking into a lower cost version of Realivox, although that would be well into the future. My point in this post is just to explain why Realivox The Ladies is priced as it is.

[Mike Greene]

I was able to download this last night, and I love it! With some tweaking and work this tool can do so much.

Inspired by the "Mmquiring Minds", I started working on something to get acquainted with the software. I noticed that for myself, having solo vocalists is nice, but layering is where The Ladies can be unleashed to make any type of legato choir.

I thought I was only going to use Teresa, but you can use pretty much any voice for layering. Everything obviously depends on what type of stuff you want to do, but for any soundtrack-type music, this is definitely what I was looking for.

Here's something I made... You might very well recognize the soundtrack which inspired me on this one. I wanted to share this to show you what else The Ladies can be, besides that solo vocal line for the uplifting commercial rock piece. all vocals are The Ladies... (it's uploaded on my dubstep channel, please forgive me!)

https://soundcloud.com/no-dice-dubstep/the-absence

Updog, I am blown away by that piece. Absolutely gorgeous. Thank you for posting it.

[Cap'n Spanky]

https://soundcloud.com/no-dice-dubstep/the-absence

Sounds reali-nice!

I also purchased The Ladies recently, but haven't had much chance to play with it. Damn day job!

[lingyai]

As I said, I'm sure it's good; but ultimately, people buy after weighing up their own backgrounds (costs and benefits to them), not the developer's background (i.e. his or her costs / biz strategy). I'm glad for and a bit envious of those who've bought it, but it's out of my own price range for what it is. Instead, I'm making due with a "poor man's version" called LadyVox, by PureMagnetik

http://www.puremagnetik.com/index.php?o ... =208#10022

which I was lucky enough to get for $12 before they apparently stopped selling the Kontakt version (now it seems only available for Ableton). Doesn't seem to have near the vocal / phrase variety of The Ladies; having said that, for me, it does a really nice job with non-choral oohs and aahs. YMMV, etc.

My suggestion was actually addressed to the developer. However, if what you say is true, then I reckon The Ladies won't be sliced up the way the Bela D stuff is. (What you say about the Bela D offer is inaccurate, actually, but it's a tangent and I don't want to get into a pillow fight over it). At core, I'm suggesting that some price drop might be compensated for by higher volumes.

Anyway, dev's call. However he does it, I hope he succeeds with the product, because it looks really good -- even if I'm left with my own nose against the candy store window.

You're absolutely right that the price a product will sell for is ultimately determined by what the customers are willing to pay, as opposed to what a developer's cost justifications are. I could give all sorts of reasons why Realivox costs what it does, but it doesn't change the fact that people can only pay what they can afford.

On the other hand, Drum Addict gives some very real costs that are associated on a per copy basis. If I lowered the price of The Ladies to $100, for instance, my profit would only be about half that. In addition to the Kontakt license fee, I also pay a per-copy royalty to the singers, as well as few other costs that apply to each sale.

It's tricky, because it's certainly true that sales would increase if I lowered the price. But there's also a fairly large segment of the market for whom $295 is pretty much a no brainer. (Crazy as that may sound.) I sometimes wish there was a way to make a sliding scale for pricing, where film composers with lots of money paid one price, while people with less money paid another price. But it would be impossible to implement, plus it would take some of the luster off for those who pay the higher price.

In fact, that's the main reason I've stuck to this consistent price, ever since Realivox's release. I'm one of those guys who paid a ton of money for East West libraries, only to see them way cheaper just a few months later. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to do that to my customers. So even if I thought lowering the price of Realivox would bring in more profits, I still wouldn't do it, because of loyalty to my existing customers.

It's been suggested that I release the singers individually, which would make Realivox more affordable. I like the idea in theory . . . but a major strength of Realivox is the *combination* of singers. As timing would have it, this is demonstrated really well with the piece Updog just posted. He says he thought Teresa would be all he would use, but because the other singers were also at his fingertips, he was able to do so much more. That's where a lot of the real power of Realivox comes in, in that the singers can be both solo and part of a group. It's not until you actually have the full set in your hands that this becomes clear. Which is why I'm reluctant to sell the singers individually.

Please don't interpret anything I've said as dismissing your opinions, by the way. What you've been saying is absolutely true and hearing your (and others) opinions is very valuable to me. In fact, because of things you and others have been saying, I'm looking into a lower cost version of Realivox, although that would be well into the future. My point in this post is just to explain why Realivox The Ladies is priced as it is.

Mike, I don't read any of the above as a dismissal, and I appreciate you taking time to respond.

By the way, it's my birthday soon [hopeful hound eyes in the dog pound] .... ok, I had to try.

If pricing ever does change, or I get richer, I'll be happy to go for it. Meanwhile, good luck with it, the guitar and your future pipeline.

[emasters]

I purchased "The Ladies" recently, and it's very well done. The price at $295 was not inexpensive, but considering what the package includes, seems fair. Like Mike, I've had the experience with other Vendors where you purchase early in the product's life-cycle, only to find six months later it's discounted so much, that you regret having jumped on-board early. This is something I like about Uhe -- they discount during the initial product roll-out, then never again. Sounds like Mike shares a similar philosophy, which as a customer/early adopter, I appreciate. Looking forward to the upcoming release of "The Men."

[lingyai]

Of course I love well-recorded oohs, ohs and aahs, but I keep waiting for someone to come out with a library of vocal consonants. Man, that'd be rad.

[dredd i knight]

Hi Mike, how long is The Ladies going to be at its $295 price point?
Seriously looking at getting this...

[updog]

In the other thread Mike said he was going to continue the sale until the end of the month, but I don't know if he has planned anything differently since.

If you're not looking for actual vocal phrases like words and such, I advise you to go for it! (after all, The Ladies was never intended for such, but on a side note, I've been able to mimic phrases by making use of the large amount of articulations included)

[dredd i knight]

The demos sound good to my ears (which aren't the best), and the implementation seems very clever and intuitive. I'm not looking for actual words and it seems a good step up from Alchemy's Dream Voices which I have and love....

[updog]

The demos sound good to my ears (which aren't the best), and the implementation seems very clever and intuitive. I'm not looking for actual words and it seems a good step up from Alchemy's Dream Voices which I have and love....

Yeah, it would even be a huge leap forwards, in terms of vocal libraries. That's not to say Dream Voices is bad in anyway, but perhaps better suited for the more unusual stuff. This thing sounds fantastic, but also works as the 'bread and butter' whenever needed. I've started sticking it pretty much anywhere, even where I only need the smallest vocal touch.

What I mean to say, there's other stuff available, but this one just works for anything, albeit it is a little more expensive than some.

[olikana]

i'd love this but the price is just crazy. and at 295$ still is.
anything below 200$ and i would have already bought without thinking.
the "ahs" don't convince me fully.. ....maybe with some processing they can be popstadard....but in the 2 examples i hear them they don't sound very good and at high pitch sounds pitched.

[Karmacomposer]

i'd love this but the price is just crazy. and at 295$ still is.
anything below 200$ and i would have already bought without thinking.
the "ahs" don't convince me fully.. ....maybe with some processing they can be popstadard....but in the 2 examples i hear them they don't sound very good and at high pitch sounds pitched.

You get what you pay for. This library is top notch. In my studio, with good quality monitor speakers, I hear no anomalies or problems. The price is where it should be at considering the quality of the product and how much time and effort went into it.

If one cannot afford something, then they can either save up for it or not purchase it. If you cannot afford a Maserati sports car, then you probably won't ever buy (or need) one. There are some orchestral libraries that cost over $1,000 dollars (I bought EWQLSO Gold XP and EWQLSC when they were hugely expensive). In comparison, Mike's product is nearly a bargain.

It kills any of the Yamaha Vocoloids and has a place that choir libraries simply don't go. I have yet to hear a sample collection that sounds as good or is as versatile. Like someone else said, you can sprinkle the ladies here and there for almost any kind of production.

Mike