To all the Kontakt-Sample developers: Why developing libraries for the newest version of Kontakt??

[jancivil]

a bit off topic, but i've noticed a difference in attitudes between Win and Mac users. when something doesn't work on Windows, it's always Windows' fault, bash and berate Windows at every turn. when something doesn't work on a Mac, especially when Apple did it on purpose, users go and complain to the developers instead, not to Apple. at least this has been my experience.

Nice straw man.
NI cuts their losses on supporting OSes. This is not through itself an OSX issue, it's a choice this developer made. First it was break the installer, which had a couple of workarounds, now it's a kernel change.

More on topic: so does Kontakt 5.4.2 work on XP?

[Ray12]

They're not dumb, they're doing it on purpose. But I wonder how long will they be able to do so, really. At some point people should just stop eating Apple's shit and go to the other side where 20+ years old software still works even today, and will continue to work so for quite a while to come, too.

I think this is very true. I have a MacBook from 2010 which is still running perfectly. As far as I know MacBooks from 2010 are the oldest ones that are supported. Back then this was the top model they sold (17", as much RAm you could get, the fastest CPU,....). Honestly, I can't afford buying for 3k a new MacBook every 3 years or so and another amout of $$$ to get all the newest version for my applications
I'm sure my MacBook won't be supported anymore with the next update for OSX.
By the way, I also have a Window machine. There is software, that was made for WIN 98, that is still running on Windos 8. (Microsoft's support isn't that bad at all )

when something doesn't work on a Mac, especially when Apple did it on purpose, users go and complain to the developers instead, not to Apple. at least this has been my experience.

In my opinion it's of course Apple who constantly is pushing to update. I thought this is obvious, so I didn't mention this in my initial post...
But still ... I don't get it why some sample deveoper are on the same boat, trying to force their customers to get the update. I can't believe that it's always because they are eager to use those new features.
And I don't think there's some conspiracy going on. I think sometimes it's just because they get the newest version without thinking to much about consequences for customer who can't get the newest version (or won't, because updating almost alwas means I have to spend money to make all my applications work again after the update)

Unfortunately for many Apple users Apple is the holy cow, so Apple can get away with a lot. For me Apple is not glamorous at all. I worked on PC for almost 10 years before I switched to Mac (simply because I wanted to keep working on Logic, which was bought by Apple).

[dnekm]

Not everyone develops for the latest version.

All of my sounds are still compatible with the last V2 and up, except for one which was only for V3.5 and up.

I also realize that I am not in the majority, though.....

[budweiser]

Change to Windows, solve your problems

Exactly. You mac guys pay a high price for a glamorous os. I'm still runing on seven 64/cubase pro 8 some windows 98 plug-ins.

Yeah, I don't have that kind of problem. It isn't that it's glamorous, it's that I'm avoiding all kinds of problems. Why are you pushing your ways on people, like it's a religious fight. My opinion of people pushing religion is that they're not actually very secure in it.

I had locked down my system before a couple of libraries appeared. . So the big deal you want someone you disagree with about their choices isn't really that big. I have my own kvetch about Apple, it's not really your affair.

Hmm... i'm not sure i fully understand your post nor get that religious thing. I was just pointing out the fact that backward compatibility seems to be (is) far better on windows, not making any proselitysm or something. I fully agree with the op when he says "Why are you supporting this constant crazy pressure to update everything?". Very frequent posts about backward compatibility problems on mac os, so why not choosing the windows road ?

[jancivil]

they're doing it on purpose. But I wonder how long will they be able to do so, really. At some point people should just stop eating Apple's shit and go to the other side where 20+ years old software still works even today, and will continue to work so for quite a while to come, too.

I'm sure my MacBook won't be supported anymore with the next update for OSX.
By the way, I also have a Window machine. There is software, that was made for WIN 98, that is still running on Windos 8.

when something doesn't work on a Mac, especially when Apple did it on purpose, users go and complain to the developers instead, not to Apple. at least this has been my experience.

In my opinion it's of course Apple who constantly is pushing to update. I thought this is obvious, so I didn't mention this in my initial post...
But still ... I don't get it why some sample deveoper are on the same boat, trying to force their customers to get the update. I can't believe that it's always because they are eager to use those new features.

My computer is over six years old now. I could install Mavericks on it, I could install Yosemite on it. The problem with these for me is not complex, Snow Leopard was streamlined and that is not true of the later ones. Apple is going to get worse and it's going to get worse some more.

I'm reliant not only on NI instruments and FX, but heavily on VSL and BFD. VSL announces in their marketing materials that the minimum system requirement on Mac is OS10.8. What this really is is they are discouraging support tickets from users below that. It all works perfectly under 10.6.8, which is the actual minimum system requirement. Actually it probably works better per se because of what that OS is. BFD2 and BFD3 work under all the OSes. NI with 10.8 decided to really break it for all of their current-> future builds. Yes, that decision is driven basically by Apple's constant push-the-OS, but it is a decision by the developer. It is not forced by Apple's OSes.
Apple "did it on purpose", NI "did it on purpose", but it is fallacious to give the developer an out for their own actual choice.

So, VSL does business a little differently than NI, and OTS which AFAIK is still porting for Kontakt 4 does business differently than someone that insists their baby has to be strictly for the Kontakt 5.4.2. I'm adapative. I chose OSX 12 yrs ago because Windows is just gross to me. You users have actual, definite, real concerns with functionality you have to watch that I do not. Thank you for your concern for our not adhering to the true religion, though.

[jancivil]

Change to Windows, solve your problems

Exactly. You mac guys pay a high price for a glamorous os. I'm still runing on seven 64/cubase pro 8 some windows 98 plug-ins.

Yeah, I don't have that kind of problem. It isn't that it's glamorous, it's that I'm avoiding all kinds of problems. Why are you pushing your ways on people, like it's a religious fight. My opinion of people pushing religion is that they're not actually very secure in it.

I had locked down my system before a couple of libraries appeared. . So the big deal you want someone you disagree with about their choices isn't really that big. I have my own kvetch about Apple, it's not really your affair.

Hmm... i'm not sure i fully understand your post nor get that religious thing.

Don't take it as directed at you. E.D. seems to have edited his post, at first I was going to say, 'but how it is that this is not yet another chance at telling Mac users what a messed-up choice they make', but then it appeared in quotes.

I think aesthetically that Windows is gross, even as it tried a little harder not to be and cop a couple of OSX looks. But 'glamour', I don't know what that is. But anyway, does Kontakt 5.4.2, and the other current builds, run on XP? I remember seeing exactly the issue and type of workarounds when they broke the installer, and I'm fairly sure I'm seeing that there is a kernel difference built in as well.
I'm not paying a price at all, except for Mountain Lion is kind of a POS IMO. I mean if I cared I could not work with 1990's software, that would be a price, . I can't work with my version of FCP - except on the other drive.
(Maybe FCP 'Classic' wouldn't even run on that, I don't know.)
"Change to windows", someone is advising. (And adopt some problems I don't have and a higher maintenance lifestyle.)
If someone prefers it, I would never think to advise them to drop it for 'the other side' , is the thing.

[xNiMiNx]

But anyway, does Kontakt 5.4.2, and the other current builds, run on XP? I remember seeing exactly the issue and type of workarounds when they broke the installer, and I'm fairly sure I'm seeing that there is a kernel difference built in as well.

IIRC, 5.3.1 is the last one you could 'trick' onto xp 86/64. NI must have caught wind and broke it on purpose. But hey, maybe im wrong, maybe theres new features in Win7 that allowed NI to finally make presets. Can you have 4gb+ files in kontakt yet, or is that code still based on that old stuff?

MS / MAC / NI / etc, can all suck a nut with the forced updating.

[Burillo]

XP is 14 years old though. Mac versions that don't work with the latest Kontakt are much more recent. even if you factor in service packs, SP3 is still 7 years old, SP2 (on which the vast majority of software will work) is 11 years old. so even in comparison with XP, Mac still loses.

[dnekm]

I do not get why everyone upgrades all of the time...

Still using Kontakt 2 and 3.5 and have been through XP, Vista and Now Windows 8 and it still works...

On the other hand, I do get the new scripting things and such, but it is really just making available on the surface what was always under the hood, is it not? Or did I miss something?

[Zombie Queen]

On the other hand, I do get the new scripting things and such, but it is really just making available on the surface what was always under the hood, is it not?

Nah, you can do a lot more of fun things with scripting.

[zircon]

Correct, also many optimizations and bug fixes with each new ver of Kontakt. Though we do try to do a fair # of libraries for 5.3.1 and earlier.

[TwoToneshuzz]

I'm not a Kontakt users so my point is of more general about upgrades, using old systems and hardware.

My window of comfort I've somewhat arbitrarily set to 5 years. I get a one year old used Mac, keep it updated until it's reaching the non supported anymore zone, then repeat the cycle. I recently updated to Yosemite with my mid 2011 iMac, most everything I have has been updated to work. So it's not an issue for me.

Sample libraries are a special case, as they are usually such a huge investment in time, and with the smaller user base also hugely expensive, so that case where you have substantial investment it perhaps makes sense to keep a slow update rate on a dedicated sampler workstation Mac or PC..

[Numanoid]

Why are you pushing your ways on people, like it's a religious fight. My opinion of people pushing religion is that they're not actually very secure in it.

Hello?

The OP wants libs not to be released for the latest Kontakt version, because it interferes with Mac OSX

NI is updating Kontakt for one reason or another.

Why should Windows users suffer because some guy on Mac has got a problem with that.

I want libs to be released for the latest version of Kontakt.

[Zombie Queen]

I want libs to be released for the latest version of Kontakt.

Does it tame your interest, if a lib is tagged for older Kontakt version?

[idfpower]

My 2 cents: there are still many people that use older computers and software. Making your Kontakt library compatible with older versions looks like a wise thing to do. Of course, the big dogs will always squeeze the latest tech in order to get that edge, but for a small developer and even a random normal user to build something that works only with the latest version of Kontakt makes very little sense - unless it's just something built for your own personal use.

Maybe ppl should focus more on what type of instrument they're building and getting fresh & original ideas that are yet to be released in Kontakt form, rather than using the latest available scripting features of the program. I mean at the end of the day, if you're going to make just another "X" library, your effort will make very little impact and all that brilliant scripting might go unnoticed.

Bah, don't mind me Carry on