What is the most efficient (fastest) way to make an instrument from a single sample to a keyzone?

[Hans25]

so ... I think you are trying to preserve the length of the notes in order to sound more realistic,

Exactly! That's what I'm trying to do.

but only once an octave? I don't think you'll get a "realistic instrument" like that ... but no harm trying these things out.

No that's probably right but it was just an example.

Making good realistic sounding, playable sampled instruments takes a lot of time. I find I can get away with 2 samples per octave with 1 - 4 samples per velocity layer, depending on the material. Sometimes I have to sample every single note (vocals especially). YMMV

Yes I understand. I can manage that if you want it to sound realistic and "fool" the listener then it's probably a tremendous work. Thanks for the tip.

What I'm trying to do here is mainly just preserving as much as the sound as possible. It's just old Amiga samples being just a "level" above commodore64 blip-blip sounds. So for me it's not importaint that the bass sounds realistic. It just has to be constant on all keyzones. So that the attack is the same and then maybe different loop points.

If you look at the above picture from TAL-Sampler then it seems to be mapped as how you do it. Because first it's C1, then F#1 and C2 etc. etc. But the octave thing was just an example - not a specific range I had in mind. But that wasn't obvious off course .

[Hans25]

Just drag your single sample into Kontakt and set it to use one of the time stretching playback modes. Done.

But I want to import it in TAL-sampler. Then I need several samples.

[ere2learn]

You cant use what you don't have

[Hans25]

You cant use what you don't have

I don't have multisamples true. But copying and time stretching and making different loop points should at least make it better I believe

[ere2learn]

update us if you figure it out..

[fmr]

There are samplers (Kontakt does it, and I'm sure there are others) where, if you follow a certain name rule, where the key is part of the name, the sampler automaps the samples for you, and create an instrument automatically. At least for that part you are done. For the other part (the creation of the samples out of a single one) what you describe seems to me the only way to do it. It's time consuming, for sure, but I can't see another way. Of course, you need an editor that is "really" good at pitch shifting. The new IRCAM TS could be of great help for you on that.

Thanks for that answer. It's nice to know that I just didn't overlook something obvious. Automapping is better than nothing. I have Kontakt just not so much experience with it. But the real time consumer is the pitch shifting - renaming over and over again.

I just can't understand why no developers has this feature in their sampler. If the sampler has automapping to a certain rule and can time stretch or pitch shift with high quality, then it should be easy to implement a macro where you only have to import or drag the new sample and then everything else is automated.

Good quality pitch-shifting algorithms are not usually used for intents like this, thats probably why samplers do not implement such routines. People usually sample external sources, and prepare the material previously, outside the sampler, and only then go in there, to map and create the instruments. Task may be tedious, but I can't think of any other way, if you want to accomplish something with a minimum of quality. Even a batch could not be used, since what you want to accomplish is not always the same thing (eg, you want to transpose up a third, then up sixth, then up an octave, then up a 10th, and so on). It's a matter of take it or leave it, i'm afraid.

So, create the samples using Wavelab at the best quality available, rename them using the new root notes as reference, and you will end creating the mappings in TAL Sampler pretty quick, even if manually.

[BertKoor]

you are trying to preserve the length of the notes

Sure, but why ffs, Hans? These were Amiga samples, right? On that platform (mod trackers) the note length did vary with the key it was played at. Low note: long duration. High note: short duration. For infinite durations you had to select a zone of the sample to loop. That worked quite well, so why now go through all the trouble of repitching?

[Hans25]

[Good quality pitch-shifting algorithms are not usually used for intents like this, thats probably why samplers do not implement such routines.

Ok well that's an explanation to a certain extend at least.

People usually sample external sources, and prepare the material previously, outside the sampler, and only then go in there, to map and create the instruments. Task may be tedious, but I can't think of any other way, if you want to accomplish something with a minimum of quality.

Maybe I'm trying to do the impossible. Making a single sample a multisample with just a tiny bit of quality to make it sound like one instrument.

Even a batch could not be used, since what you want to accomplish is not always the same thing (eg, you want to transpose up a third, then up sixth, then up an octave, then up a 10th, and so on). It's a matter of take it or leave it, i'm afraid.

I think that can be done. You just have to have a popup window with the base sample keyzone, then a dropdown list to choose the semitones for the next sample. Then a dropdown list for the third sample that will go from the next seminote and up to a third a fifth or whatever you specify.

So, create the samples using Wavelab at the best quality available, rename them using the new root notes as reference, and you will end creating the mappings in TAL Sampler pretty quick, even if manually.

Then it seems that my reasoning is not totally out of order. That's something at least.
Thanks for all the comments/explanation and suggestions!

[Hans25]

you are trying to preserve the length of the notes

Sure, but why ffs, Hans? These were Amiga samples, right? On that platform (mod trackers) the note length did vary with the key it was played at. Low note: long duration. High note: short duration. For infinite durations you had to select a zone of the sample to loop. That worked quite well, so why now go through all the trouble of repitching?

I understand your wonders. But when I listen to old Amiga-tracks on youtube or where ever I find them it seems to me that there is no obvious length change when going up or down the notes?? Maybe they are doing other "tricks" that I am not aware of or can think of.

I can understand that maybe a pad sample would be suitable to have different loop-zones but what if it's a bass with a clear attack in the beginning of the sample? I tried to copy the sample and map it out but it sounded horrible and infinite duration loop sounded like a repetitive bass with a percussive beat at each beginning. That was the initial off set that made me reason that if I stretch the sample while pitching up or down I would be able to make a more natural loop point.

I download a samplepack called st-xx that was initially released as Amiga samples in the 80's or early 90's:
I reasoned that they cleared everything with respect to copyrights because they have shared it in their own names.

These samples are only single oneshot samples and a lot of the basses are staccato short notes with a short amount of the sample to loop. And it might be impossible to do what I want. But why on earth would a samplepack be released like this if there is no way to make an instrument out of them?? Maybe the composers for Amiga games did it in a different way using some kind of multisamples.

[thecontrolcentre]

One sample is enough if you use an envelope ... tweak the envelope until the sample sounds ok in the keyzone you want to play it in (or until it sounds right on every key). Job done. You are really over complicating things.

[Hans25]

One sample is enough if you use an envelope ... tweak the envelope until the sample sounds ok in the keyzone you want to play it in (or until it sounds right on every key). Job done. You are really over complicating things.

Why didn't you say that in the first place? And what was all that about needing two samples pr. octave if one just can use an envelope?

[arkmabat]

Load it into a tracker. ModPlug, Renoise...

[arkmabat]

One sample is enough if you use an envelope ... tweak the envelope until the sample sounds ok in the keyzone you want to play it in (or until it sounds right on every key). Job done. You are really over complicating things.

Why didn't you say that in the first place? And what was all that about needing two samples pr. octave if one just can use an envelope?

It sounds better. Can the envelope concept be explained further? I'm interested.

[thecontrolcentre]

One sample is enough if you use an envelope ... tweak the envelope until the sample sounds ok in the keyzone you want to play it in (or until it sounds right on every key). Job done. You are really over complicating things.

Why didn't you say that in the first place? And what was all that about needing two samples pr. octave if one just can use an envelope?

Calm down kid. "all that about needing two samples pr. octave" was to create a "realistic" sounding instrument, which is what you said you wanted to create. You yourself said you planned to use envelopes to finish off the different time-stretched samples. I therefore presumed you understood how envelopes work. Many people have offered almost exactly the same advice and you've refused to listen to them ...

[thecontrolcentre]

One sample is enough if you use an envelope ... tweak the envelope until the sample sounds ok in the keyzone you want to play it in (or until it sounds right on every key). Job done. You are really over complicating things.

Why didn't you say that in the first place? And what was all that about needing two samples pr. octave if one just can use an envelope?

It sounds better. Can the envelope concept be explained further? I'm interested.

If pitching a sample causes the attack (or decay) to change, an envelope can be applied to the sample to correct this. Moving the sample start position may need to happen too ... best thing is to try it.