Zyn Fusion VST Bug Reports

[AJYoung]

Figured it might be a good idea to get one of these started now that Zyn 3.0 is officially released. I've noticed a couple things already.

To start: I use Windows 10, and run both FL Studio 12.4 64-bit and Reaper 5.28 64-bit.

1. Blank patch, select File>Quit. This produces an endless stream of error messages reading " [Fatal Error] Mruby Is Unable to Continue", then crashes the host. Happens in both FL and Reaper. I know there's no realistic purpose to select "quit" in the VST version, but it definitely shouldn't cause a host crash.

2. File>Load Instrument/Master/etc. This file browser system as a whole is very problematic and unstable.
A) Navigate to any folder and try to select a blank option in the list on the right. Each time you click it will for some reason erase part of the full path down at the bottom. When this happens, you can't navigate to anywhere. Click enough times and the host crashes. If you try to manually type the folder path, it will also crash the host
B) Sometimes when navigating through folder, the option ".." to navigate up one level disappears. The only way to get back is to manually delete the folder name from the full path down at the bottom.

3. Typing Text & Naming Instruments etc.
A) There is no current feedback to indicate you have clicked on a text field and can type in it. Normally I would expect a cursor. It would also be nice to be able to highlight sections of text to delete, instead of having to hold backspace.
B) If you are editing the Author/Description fields of a preset, and hit backspace when the field is blank, it crashes the host.
C) Also, I can only edit text fields in Reaper. In FL studio, I cannot. Even with "Host Priority for Key Strokes" turned off in the FL Wrapper.

4. Automation. Is it possible? In the old Jackoo VST version, you could acheive this via MIDI learn by selecting "Learn" then wiggling the Zyn paramater you wanted to assign. It would show up as an option in the Acquired Controls list, and you could automate it by choosing the corresponding Paramater Number in the host. It does not seem I can do this in Zyn Fusion, nor do any paramaters show up as automatable in the host.

[UFaction]

Did a test and encountered pretty much the exact same issues, working on Windows 7 64-bit with Reaper 5.28 64-bit.

3. The only difference is that I can not edit text textboxes, neither in the file browser system, nor in the preset browser.
Also, in the latter the "save" button doesn't seem to work for me(I did have the browser set to "write"), and there is otherwise no apparent way to load a preset. Unless that is supposed to be by clicking/double-clicking a preset in "read" mode?

4. I managed to bind a parameter for MIDI automation once, but I have no idea how or why and didn't manage to do it again. It also didn't appear as an automatable parameter for the track in Reaper, which only allows to display and automate/modulate "Bypass" and "Wet" as of now. (The default for any track FX)

[fundamental]

Thanks for taking the time to document bugs:

Per 1. it's documented with some of the beta issues https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... /issues/19

Per 2. I agree that the file browser isn't as robust as it should be. I haven't seen a crash from that bit of code for a while though. I've added this to the existing file browser issue https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... s/issues/6

Per 3. A - animated cursor feature is now documented at https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... /issues/11 a full text editor will be deferred until other issues are addressed
B - this was noted by another user and it should be fixed by the 3.0.1 patches to be released relatively soon https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... /issues/28
C - I'll have to test the host to hopefully find a fix for this https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... /issues/31

Per 4. currently automation is limited to MIDI CCs and their learned parameters. the midi learn view shows information on what has been learned. The way that parameters are learned and how the bindings are interacted with will likely be refined in future releases https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusi ... /issues/20

[UFaction]

Alright, thanks for the quick feedback. I'll be looking forward to the fixes!

[Marginal Ray]

I will NOT use the new zyn (even if it would be free), and I’m very disappointed that you didn’t fix bugs mentioned in previous posts. Exemples (win 7 / 64 - Reaper) :

1° using old and new zyn simultaneously:
- Old zyn in C:/, new zyn in vstplugins folder: Reaper does not see the new Zyn
- Rename new zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper, with a blank black GUI for the new zyn
- Rename old zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper. Old projects are loaded with the new zyn but always with default sound (just a sinewave). Unacceptable because I use Zyn in more than 100 projects.

2° File menu:
- Quit shuts down the DAW!!!
- Load master or instrument: nothing changed since first demo: navigation is limited to C: (impossible to access to other discs), and very clumsy and buggy: I tried a second time, and an empty directory list (impossible to select anything on to navigate in C:/). Nothing can be loaded.
- Save an instrument: same problem: after changing a directory (C: only), than Cancel and start again, you can’t select anything, or navigate in the disc. It’s blocked and unusable.

3° the buttons right from the keyboard are not working (an you know it!).

I stop testing a so buggy and unusable "application". Do you know that there are super promotions to buy software for discount price? I just bought Xpand2, the Protools “workstation” (a hight class rompler in fact, with thousands of presets) for $1, on https://www.audiodeluxe.com/). And there are many good music software free or around the same price that this unusable GUI.

As said in a previous post, Zyn is a so fantastic synth (the best I ever used) that I would have pay your price for your GUI. But selling it in this state, ignoring bug reports, is unacceptable.

Sorry to be so direct, but the excellent quality of your GUI is ruined by so much amateurism on other points. Your can't sell a beta!

[fundamental]

1° using old and new zyn simultaneously:
- Old zyn in C:/, new zyn in vstplugins folder: Reaper does not see the new Zyn
- Rename new zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper, with a blank black GUI for the new zyn
- Rename old zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper. Old projects are loaded with the new zyn but always with default sound (just a sinewave). Unacceptable because I use Zyn in more than 100 projects.

I have spoken to jackoo about this particular issue and after some initial discussion I have not heard back from him

- Load master or instrument: nothing changed since first demo: navigation is limited to C: (impossible to access to other discs), and very clumsy and buggy: I tried a second time, and an empty directory list (impossible to select anything on to navigate in C:/). Nothing can be loaded.
- Save an instrument: same problem: after changing a directory (C: only), than Cancel and start again, you can’t select anything, or navigate in the disc. It’s blocked and unusable.

I'll double check this, but I'm reasonably sure that this was fixed in the release version and the demo version is a few fixes behind. It's a totally valid complaint though if the demo build exhibits these issues.

3° the buttons right from the keyboard are not working (an you know it!).

This may still be a problem in the demo build, but I've just confirmed that it's fixed in the release build. I will update the demo build this next week.

As said in a previous post, Zyn is a so fantastic synth (the best I ever used) that I would have pay your price for your GUI. But selling it in this state, ignoring bug reports, is unacceptable.

Sorry to be so direct, but the excellent quality of your GUI is ruined by so much amateurism on other points. Your can't sell a beta!

The bulk of the work on the GUI was performed during a multiple month gap in my job, but now I am now back working fulltime at my normal position (and I have been since the end of August). While it may seem like bugs are ignored, that is not the case. They are getting handled based upon how severely it affects use, how much time it takes to replicate and fix, and how many people it affects. As I hear about the issues they're reported at https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusion-issues/issues .

I have provided the demo to avoid misleading people to the overall state of the software as it certainly isn't as finished as I would like. The options were essentially to either slowly fix all reported issues over the course of multiple years, drop the project, or provide some release while fixing things as time permits. I was hoping that the release could indicate that there was enough demand for additional full time bug fixing and polishing, but that has not been the case.

[jackoo]

1° using old and new zyn simultaneously:
- Old zyn in C:/, new zyn in vstplugins folder: Reaper does not see the new Zyn
- Rename new zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper, with a blank black GUI for the new zyn
- Rename old zyn dll : Both can be loaded in Raeper. Old projects are loaded with the new zyn but always with default sound (just a sinewave). Unacceptable because I use Zyn in more than 100 projects.

I have spoken to jackoo about this particular issue and after some initial discussion I have not heard back from him

Hi fundamental, others,

I'm sorry, I didn't want to drop my support.
However, you are not using the official VST SDK from Steinberg (and I'm really not familiar with the clone), there is no project in a Visual Studio environment (in which I could do some debugging/understand some code), some parts of the code have been rewritten in C++11 (which I cannot read at the moment - I'm stuck with C++98) and the demo vst is 64bit which I can not properly test because my DAW is still running on WinXP 32bit. I could only quick test the standalone version on my Win7 desktop (but that doesn't have a DAW or any good audio interface). There are too many elements here which I need to learn / upgrade to be in the same ballpark. I'm sorry for all of this, no disrespect intended!

[EvilDragon]

I could only quick test the standalone version on my Win7 desktop (but that doesn't have a DAW or any good audio interface)

Put Reaper and ASIO4ALL on it, at least. Should be good enough for testing and development.


Question for fundamental: is Zyn-Fusion skinnable? There are some parameter names which seem quite weirdly named to me (for example envelope: A.DT, D.DT, S.VAL, R.DT, instead Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release - not sure what's the reasoning behind this nomenclature?) which I'd totally want to fix

[fundamental]

Question for fundamental: is Zyn-Fusion skinnable? There are some parameter names which seem quite weirdly named to me (for example envelope: A.DT, D.DT, S.VAL, R.DT, instead Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release - not sure what's the reasoning behind this nomenclature?) which I'd totally want to fix

Skinnable in which sense?

In terms of colors there's an internal palette, but there's no interface to change colors within the it.
A design for themeing support was sketched out, but testing and bug fixing took priority.

For the parameter labels they're lifted from the OSC API and you *can* change these relatively easily.
These labels and other information about the parameters is stored within the synthesizer's schema, aka schema/test.json (yeah, I know the placeholder name 'test.json' shouldn't be there, but other issues had higher priority).
In that file you'll find *all* the parameters of zyn (I've specified a format for 'actions' as well, but they are not yet encoded there).
For fixing the cited example you'll find:

Code: Select all

    {
        "path"     : "/part[0,15]/kit[0,15]/adpars/GlobalPar/FreqEnvelope/PA_dt",
        "shortname": "a.dt",
        "name"     : "PA_dt",
        "tooltip"  : "Attack Time",
        "type"     : "i",
        "range"    : [0,127]
    },

changing the shortname changes the label that's displayed below the control.
Additionally, the schema can be generated by the zynaddsubfx core via --dump-json-schema or -D .
Do note that there will be several spots in the schema file where a.dt is found, but a simple find and replace should fix that.

[AJYoung]

the demo version is a few fixes behind. It's a totally valid complaint though if the demo build exhibits these issues.

This something important to know. I should mention that the 4 issues I found when I started this post were in the demo version. It would be a good idea to update the demo on the site soon so people can get a good idea of what they're paying for. I'll definitely buy ZynFusion, but I want to make sure it doesn't explode on me before I do!

Anyways, thanks for all your work, Mark. Seeing Zyn come to life like this again is a dream come true!

[Marginal Ray]

What should I understand ? Some bugs are just in the windows demo version ?

You made the decision to sell your work. You must be carefull.

Windows is not Linux. It's not a question of what is better, but there are countless Windows free ou cheap VST (or heavy discounts on top commercial synths) that works perfect. Jackoos VST version also works perfect despite the too many opened windows. Didn't you start from it ?

It would be my pleasure to promote your work outside the relative close world of Zyn users. But it would ruin your (and mine) reputation, and reviews would be a desaster, even if the GUI itself is absolutely superb.

No, no, no, don't sell this buggy beta and finish the job, or show us a working demo under windows (no bugs under Linux ?). There is a real legal risk you should take in consideration, because any customer would require refund for such a product, an expensive product on the market (because now, you are on the market, and no longer in the happy and cool free word).

[fundamental]

Jackoos VST version also works perfect despite the too many opened windows. Didn't you start from it ?

no, I did not. Jackoo's work started from the 2.4.1 release of what I'll refer to as the mainline code.
Jackoo worked on his version and ~10 people worked on the mainline code separately.
The mainline released 2.4.2, 2.4.3, 2.4.4, 2.5.0, 2.5.1, 2.5.2, 2.5.3, and 2.5.4 entirely separately from jackoo's own work.
At this stage the two codebases were quire different.
I ported the 2.5.4 code from the mainline to work with windows.
The 3.0.0 release is not based upon jackoo's fork of the codebase.

[Marginal Ray]

So you started from the linux version, not from the working VST ?

[fundamental]

So you started from the linux version, not from the working VST ?

3.0.0 is based off the linux version. I've been working on the linux version of code since 2009.

[Marginal Ray]

But you had a working VST version at disposal. You created a great interface and missed the windows transposition, that already exist and worked. I'm not developper, but I don't understand why you made this choice.