KVR Audio

mba64 · Post by **mba64** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:51 pm

Burillo wrote:when you say "effects" do you mean we will be able to build our own stompboxes? or ANY effects, e.g. analog rack FX?

Yes.

Kazrog · Post by **Kazrog** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:42 pm

hibidy wrote:I can't get recabinet to work in live w/o crashing so I'm not really hopeful about it.

Shane here from Kazrog/Recabinet. Every release of Recabinet has been tested in Live and is working perfectly. Also, many Recabinet users are using Live as their primary DAW. We've never received any customer support emails (from you or anyone else) that have ever resulted in an unresolved problem in Live.

Please take a minute to fill out a support request on our site, and be sure to specify what version of Live you are using in what OS. Thanks!

PS - it's always cool to see Kazrog products mentioned in a thread about a competing product from a massive company. I will say that what I've seen and heard of Revalver 4 looks fantastic, but I don't think that Peavey is going to go to the level of trouble that I am to track down some lesser known (but still great sounding) amps - they're far more interested in marketing their real amps with software. It will also be very interesting to play around with their 5150 model vs mine - I have no expectations, and they have an obvious advantage over anyone else at modeling their own hardware.

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:21 am

Burillo wrote:Head Case never really clicked with me, it's too clunky and unwieldy to use, and doesn't sound much different (if not inferior) to, say, S-Gear or more recent Amplitube models

Agreed.

I could never get a usable sound out of Headcase. Fizz, aliasing, distortion artifacts.
Sorry to the author (Ken), but the GUI, the processing, the sound engine, it all seemed like a rushed job to me.
Even the amp building part felt like a simple morphing filters job instead of actual circuit emulation. I tried and re-tried with almost every 2 or 3 releases but I finally abandoned the idea of making Headcase work for me when Headcase became more like a headache case.

Now Revalver4 is on a whole different level.

Kazrog wrote:but I don't think that Peavey is going to go to the level of trouble that I am to track down some lesser known (but still great sounding) amps - they're far more interested in marketing their real amps with software

Not entirely true, as Revalver4 will support an amp shop and an amp builder to allow to build any amp from scratch, or so the rumor goes. So if Peavey doesn't offer a model in it's shop, a user just might decide to build it and share it.

I am really excited nonetheless about you latest offering Kazrog, and more so knowing that you will not be only focusing on high-heavy gain (like most free ampsims around) and thinking of modeling more vintage and less modeled gear with cleans and mid-gain.

Dumble? Two Rock?

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:08 am

@headcase: I bought into it a long time ago. I don't even think it's native x64. Not that x64 really does anything, but I place great importance on not needing a bridge. Not a crappy sound though, I think that there are merits as well as room for improvement.

R4 is a ways off. May at the earliest now, and I'm not that optimistic. I'll give the "bitwig" shuffle to it....eventually they need to release it. The "well, take as long as you like but just make it work" is not really a viable option. They NEED to release it in some form and then have operators "standing by" to fix crap.

Kazrog may be a in a different boat. Maybe they don't have all the models/etc worked out. Peavey does. NO WAY IN HELL are peavey going to be able to troubleshoot all the bugs w/o testing from the average Joe. No chance.

mba64 · Post by **mba64** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:16 am

hibidy wrote:
Kazrog may be a in a different boat. Maybe they don't have all the models/etc worked out. Peavey does. NO WAY IN HELL are peavey going to be able to troubleshoot all the bugs w/o testing from the average Joe. No chance.

That is what take so long time with the testing, so many op 32/64 different daws etc. to release a stable program.

Karzog I think got an great program comming up (he made it Before Recabinet)
2014 is going to be a god year for ampsim`s I think.

Kazrog · Post by **Kazrog** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:08 pm

A3ntar wrote:Not entirely true, as Revalver4 will support an amp shop and an amp builder to allow to build any amp from scratch, or so the rumor goes. So if Peavey doesn't offer a model in it's shop, a user just might decide to build it and share it.

I am really excited nonetheless about you latest offering Kazrog, and more so knowing that you will not be only focusing on high-heavy gain (like most free ampsims around) and thinking of modeling more vintage and less modeled gear with cleans and mid-gain.

Dumble? Two Rock?

Pure speculation, but for practical reasons, I would logically assume that there still is probably some kind of underlying construct to the amp building feature that makes it well suited for certain kinds of amps, and less well suited for others. If it's truly an open ended GUI driven SPICE implementation with a fast realtime audio interpreter, then it could be an insane game changer that could be used to emulate a wide variety of different gear (not just amps.) It really depends on how deep they bothered to go with it, and we'll just have to wait and see. It is impressive, regardless...

I have friends with Dumbles and Two-Rocks, among other interesting beasts. Although they are very busy, we will make time to study the amps down the road.

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:00 pm

Kazrog wrote:Pure speculation, but for practical reasons, I would logically assume that there still is probably some kind of underlying construct to the amp building feature that makes it well suited for certain kinds of amps, and less well suited for others. If it's truly an open ended GUI driven SPICE implementation with a fast realtime audio interpreter, then it could be an insane game changer that could be used to emulate a wide variety of different gear (not just amps.)

To my understanding, this is exactly Revalver 4. A front-end GUI and an interpreter to a real-time spice engine, and the amp builder will allow you to build all kinds of crazy amps and effects starting from the schematics.
They (as in Michael Ljunggren the main dev) have been working on this version for over 4 years!

Heck, it might even allow small independent and boutique amp builders the chance to sell their creations on the Peavey amp shop and make some $$$, if Peavey can of course protect the IP of their modules, and last time I heard, Peavey already had a way of hiding schematics for "published" amps.

This is why I do indeed see it as a game changer.

Peavey's Amp shop will become like an amp & effects ecosystem and trading platform, and hopefully Peavey will know how to market and exploit it right. This is my only concern.

Kazrog wrote:I have friends with Dumbles and Two-Rocks, among other interesting beasts. Although they are very busy, we will make time to study the amps down the road.

Kazrog · Post by **Kazrog** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:18 pm

Very interesting. This will all come down, then, to the quality of the emulation of different circuit components. When you model every single component in a circuit, CPU usage quickly adds up, so you often see accuracy being sacrificed a bit with certain components so that it's viable to run end-to-end as a realtime audio DSP process on a typical PC.

By contrast, the approach I've taken with Thermionik looks at larger functional blocks of an amplifier and aims to simplify the overall algorithmic implementations without sacrificing accuracy. It's a lot of work, but so far I'm very pleased with the results.

Neither approach is inherently superior or inferior, and in the end it's going to come down to what guitar players like to play through.

More soon...

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:29 pm

Kazrog wrote:More soon...

Great! Thanks for taking your time Shane to give us a few more details about your new ampsim.

I will most definitely be giving it a spin once released.

yessongs · Post by **yessongs** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:57 am

with the ability to mimic other guitar rigs RV4 presets will be nice and the ability to add in guitar modeling a la Roland and LIne 6 should make RV4 a must have for everyone just for that alone

Hopefully these extra aspects that make RV4 a no brainer will not give Peavey any cause to slack off on the main reason we all want this product and that is the amp sim modeling. If it takes the game to the next level I will easily upgrade and make it my go to sim.

I just hope they kept the ability to put third party vst's in the fx chain. If it has a way that we can integrate a foot switch to make our patch switching instant and seamless then what will the other guys do to combat this?

Obviously we the consumers will benefit as the rest of the industry adjusts to compensate but with modeling of guitars in the mix will the Roland's and Line 6's of the world compensate to give us a vst of their guitar models not attached to a hardware purchase?

That might be a blessing to us all if such a thing happens and that I am all for.

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:01 am

EvilDragon wrote:Couldn't care less about Mac, and x64 bridges just fine in Reaper over here. I'm just saying it's nothing revolutionary, it's been done before.

It is a Synthmaker plugin that allows you to customize a few parts of the schematic, Revalver 4 is at a component level no ?

bungle · Post by **bungle** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:07 am

mba64 wrote:
hibidy wrote:
Kazrog may be a in a different boat. Maybe they don't have all the models/etc worked out. Peavey does. NO WAY IN HELL are peavey going to be able to troubleshoot all the bugs w/o testing from the average Joe. No chance.
That is what take so long time with the testing, so many op 32/64 different daws etc. to release a stable program.

This is of course a completely nonsense answer, unless you are stating that you are going to release the software with no bugs (If you do that you are not only insane but completely deluded)
The software will be delayed until the marketing team thinks it is the right time to release it, end of story, testing has very little to do with it, and no matter how much you try to convince otherwise, you should realize here that you are in a forum of old hands that have probably tested more software than you ever knew existed and also are fully aware that all software releases nowadays are betas and are barely tested no matter how big the private test pool.
We are your testers and you should get the software out to find the bugs as soon as possible, but like i said, this will happen when the marketeers deem it the correct time.

mba64 · Post by **mba64** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:56 am

I dont try to convince anyone about anything, and I say stable not bug free,and you right about the marketing team, they do have the final say.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:02 am

it's a good thing i probably have funds for both Thermionik and Revalver 4 (whatever they may cost)

the more great ampsims the better!

BBFG# · Post by **BBFG#** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:19 pm

Just a quick note: I jumped on the Revalver III deal at MFriend for $29.00
I am also looking forward to R4 though.
edit: moved to another topic

Revalver 4 announced