stereo piano sounds bad in mono

[nielsdolieslager]

Hi everyone,

Been spending some hours doing web research and experiments with plugins, not satisfied with results.

I have a sampled piano that sounds good enough on the left and right channels and great in stereo but has phasing problems when I move the channels into each other. Boxy hollow sound. I want it to sound good in mono.

I'm mainly delaying the left (bass side) channel with Logic's sample delay and at 177 samples delay there is hardly any phase cancelling but it still sounds a bit like there's a notch filter (the further I move the left channel the higher the dip gets) and at the same time, delaying the left side this much sounds like the sound is coming from the right side.

I do some testing with BX Solo: whatever I do, the left and right channels on their own sound better then the Mid mix or the Mono mix when using the piano in mono.

I guess it has something to do with the strings never being at the same distance of the microphones, causing different phase problems per key.

Any advice? The L+R channels together really capture the character of the instrument so I don't want to have to choose

[Kriminal]

You havent said why you dont want to use stereo...

[nielsdolieslager]

Because it needs to sound good in a mono mix of the track.

[DJ Warmonger]

Because it needs to sound good in a mono mix of the track.

Oh yes, it does. The perfect mix sounds pretty much the same in mono and stereo, just narrower.
You can achieve the correct result combining multiband and mid-side processing. The lower frequency, the more mid component is necessary. On the opposite side, above certain frequency people are not able to perceive sound phase anyway, so you can go full to the side.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Load up a mid-side plugin. Turn the volume of the side channel down all the way so all you hear is the mid channel. That should do the trick.

[nielsdolieslager]

You can achieve the correct result combining multiband and mid-side processing. The lower frequency, the more mid component is necessary. On the opposite side, above certain frequency people are not able to perceive sound phase anyway, so you can go full to the side.

Thanks! So I need a good mid/side multiband compressor? Any suggestions? Only m/s compressor I have is the IK Multimedia Vintage 670. It already helps. Now I'm going to play with Waves H-EQ, also works as m/s EQ.

[nielsdolieslager]

Load up a mid-side plugin. Turn the volume of the side channel down all the way so all you hear is the mid channel. That should do the trick.

In this case, the mid channel sounds as bad as the side channel and the mono mix

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You can try a different set of samples, try a phase alignment tool like the Little Labs IBP (voxengo has one, so does Waves), or just live with it not sounding great in mono. There's not a lot of times where someone will be listening in mono anyway.

If you ever do need a mono mix, you can create a separate one using a different piano entirely.

[nielsdolieslager]

You can try a different set of samples, try a phase alignment tool like the Little Labs IBP (voxengo has one, so does Waves), or just live with it not sounding great in mono. There's not a lot of times where someone will be listening in mono anyway.

If you ever do need a mono mix, you can create a separate one using a different piano entirely.

Thanks, will look into these plugins, was hoping I had enough stuff to solve this

[Melodyshine]

Load up a mid-side plugin. Turn the volume of the side channel down all the way so all you hear is the mid channel. That should do the trick.

In this case, the mid channel sounds as bad as the side channel and the mono mix

I think mid channel = mono mix ?

[Tricky-Loops]

What about separating the left and right channel and using dual mono to pan them SLIGHTLY opposite?

[nielsdolieslager]

Load up a mid-side plugin. Turn the volume of the side channel down all the way so all you hear is the mid channel. That should do the trick.

In this case, the mid channel sounds as bad as the side channel and the mono mix

I think mid channel = mono mix ?

I'm not sure, I thought the mid channel has the shared sound of L and R minus the difference.

[nielsdolieslager]

What about separating the left and right channel and using dual mono to pan them SLIGHTLY opposite?

That's useable when I delay the left side, but it doesn't get as good as the stereo recording. Had also been playing with S1 by Waves.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

What about separating the left and right channel and using dual mono to pan them SLIGHTLY opposite?

That's useable when I delay the left side, but it doesn't get as good as the stereo recording. Had also been playing with S1 by Waves.

Checkout Waves InPhase too.

[nielsdolieslager]

What about separating the left and right channel and using dual mono to pan them SLIGHTLY opposite?

That's useable when I delay the left side, but it doesn't get as good as the stereo recording. Had also been playing with S1 by Waves.

Checkout Waves InPhase too.

will do