hibidy wrote:Not sure, but doesn't magix make a bunch of "consumer" grade stuff? I'm thinking the samplitude (and sequoia for sure) are more niche...with the point being that that consumer stuff is probably bread and butter.
The only thing I own is the am suite, brilliant set of vst's imo.
Magix drop Samplitude dongle...
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- KVRist
- 471 posts since 5 Dec, 2007 from Location! Location!
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- KVRAF
- 13090 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
The limitation to 8 VSTis is a clear dealbreaker for me (and I guess for a lot of other folks, too).
These days computers easily allow you to have, say, 4-5 alternative tracks of VSTis just "idling" should you ever want to compare takes, check for sound alternatives, etc. And well, those alternative tracks won't even consume any CPU power once you mute them, so it's not even much about powerful computers.
Heck, I'm a guitar player mainly, I'm pretty much conservative in my useage of whatever synths, too - yet, I have countless projects with a LOT more than just 8 VSTis running. Something like having around 10 instances of Zebra 2 really isn't too much uncommon (sure, most of those instances are muted, but they're there when I need them, without causing any additional hassles). The idea of using multitimbral synths doesn't change things in the slightest either - most synths simply are monotimbral (usually it's only samplers that aren't). And why not? Almost any host allows for running as much instances as you like.
Working around whatever plugin-per-track limits, bus amounts or max. audio track counts is sort of easy. Working around an 8 VSTi per song limitation defenitely isn't. And there's very few other hosts coming with such rigid limitations (at least those in the same price league).
Really, that's a serious showstopper. For a Magix product (I defenitely believe they are delivering quality) the price seems to be quite ok, but this limitation should be abandoned. It'll defenitely keep anybody mainly working with virtual instruments away. It'd even keep me away - and while I may only be using, say, around 4-5 virtual instruments in whatever more or less "complete" project, I will certainly have several alternatives running throughout the creative process.
These days computers easily allow you to have, say, 4-5 alternative tracks of VSTis just "idling" should you ever want to compare takes, check for sound alternatives, etc. And well, those alternative tracks won't even consume any CPU power once you mute them, so it's not even much about powerful computers.
Heck, I'm a guitar player mainly, I'm pretty much conservative in my useage of whatever synths, too - yet, I have countless projects with a LOT more than just 8 VSTis running. Something like having around 10 instances of Zebra 2 really isn't too much uncommon (sure, most of those instances are muted, but they're there when I need them, without causing any additional hassles). The idea of using multitimbral synths doesn't change things in the slightest either - most synths simply are monotimbral (usually it's only samplers that aren't). And why not? Almost any host allows for running as much instances as you like.
Working around whatever plugin-per-track limits, bus amounts or max. audio track counts is sort of easy. Working around an 8 VSTi per song limitation defenitely isn't. And there's very few other hosts coming with such rigid limitations (at least those in the same price league).
Really, that's a serious showstopper. For a Magix product (I defenitely believe they are delivering quality) the price seems to be quite ok, but this limitation should be abandoned. It'll defenitely keep anybody mainly working with virtual instruments away. It'd even keep me away - and while I may only be using, say, around 4-5 virtual instruments in whatever more or less "complete" project, I will certainly have several alternatives running throughout the creative process.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRAF
- 2493 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Bay Area, USA
geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
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- KVRAF
- 2493 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Bay Area, USA
Magix does do well with their consumer products.hibidy wrote:Not sure, but doesn't magix make a bunch of "consumer" grade stuff? I'm thinking the samplitube (and sequoia for sure) are more niche...with the point being that that consumer stuff is probably bread and butter.
The only thing I own is the am suite, brilliant set of vst's imo.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 16153 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
But it's still VERY expensive for a cut down version. It's NOT "Samplitude without the dongle". It's a cut down version that is in the same price range as other full versions of pretty much every competitor. THAT is the problem, not just the VSTi limit and other limitations.siriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
I like Samplitude, but if I had the choice of this cut down version or, say, Sonar at the price, I'd go with Sonar(or whatever other full version you want to insert in the statement).
Brent
My host is better than your host
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- KVRist
- 160 posts since 26 Oct, 2007
there have been a lot of discussions about this topics (pricing policy / product line setup and the associated confusing labelling of the different versions etc) over at the samplitude forums. even many otherwise totally satisfied samp users are complaining, and also some devs seem to appreciate some problems, but the sales/marketing dept does not seem to be aware that they really have a problem.
i may be wrong, but besides being extremely hard competed by reaper, i also think that magix made an own goal with making the music studio(ms)so good recently, now they try to react.
when i started a few years ago people laughed at me when i told them about the ms, it was kind of "insider tip" for "poor people"/starters. nowadays one could really use the ms for serious productions, and this is also known and made public (eg. by discussions here on kvr), so the price difference to sam and especially sam pro gets more and more unjustified for a lot of people (that are not really professionals). therefore they have to add stupid small limitations to each of their versions or to drop some features that should keep users upgrading to the full versions. each version is in a way a bargain, but the missing features complement each other perfectly between the different versions.
in my opinion, the cheaper download edition of samp is a step in the right direction, but unfortunately the overall price level still is much too high for what one gets. a few years ago people said that the effects bundled in sam are worth the price alone (and that was part of the explanation of the price difference of the smaller to the pro version), but nowadays with so many free or cheap good vst alternatives and reaper, this is not true anymore.
i think both the extremes - ms and sam pro - are unconcurrenced beautifully products, but in between there is really a mess. i really hope they take the plunge and modernize themselves and especially their pricing policy; as nice as samp is there are really not many arguments to choose a stripped version of samp over reaper.
i may be wrong, but besides being extremely hard competed by reaper, i also think that magix made an own goal with making the music studio(ms)so good recently, now they try to react.
when i started a few years ago people laughed at me when i told them about the ms, it was kind of "insider tip" for "poor people"/starters. nowadays one could really use the ms for serious productions, and this is also known and made public (eg. by discussions here on kvr), so the price difference to sam and especially sam pro gets more and more unjustified for a lot of people (that are not really professionals). therefore they have to add stupid small limitations to each of their versions or to drop some features that should keep users upgrading to the full versions. each version is in a way a bargain, but the missing features complement each other perfectly between the different versions.
in my opinion, the cheaper download edition of samp is a step in the right direction, but unfortunately the overall price level still is much too high for what one gets. a few years ago people said that the effects bundled in sam are worth the price alone (and that was part of the explanation of the price difference of the smaller to the pro version), but nowadays with so many free or cheap good vst alternatives and reaper, this is not true anymore.
i think both the extremes - ms and sam pro - are unconcurrenced beautifully products, but in between there is really a mess. i really hope they take the plunge and modernize themselves and especially their pricing policy; as nice as samp is there are really not many arguments to choose a stripped version of samp over reaper.
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- KVRAF
- 13090 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany
No, it's not the price for me at all (heck, I bought a Mac to continue using Logic...). It's that stupid limitation. And for such a limitation, it's WAY too expensive for anybody working with VSTis.siriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
It's not. It's Samplitude with some (at least one) severe limitations.It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
What's their tactics behind this? I really don't get it.
I have always thought really positive about Sampitude and the folks behind it, but this version seems to serve close to no purpose others than fixing folks on, so they would get the dongled version in the end. Which renders the "donglefree" point worthless.
Btw, do you need an internet connection for the machine it's installed on to authorize it? The mag-version of SE I have didn't offer any offline registration process, which is a no-go for me (simply out of principles).
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
Those who can do maths and those who can't.
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- KVRAF
- 2493 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Bay Area, USA
I don't think you need internet connection. You can send a file from another location.Sascha Franck wrote:Btw, do you need an internet connection for the machine it's installed on to authorize it? The mag-version of SE I have didn't offer any offline registration process, which is a no-go for me (simply out of principles).siriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Or simply turn off internet on your DAW.
Greg
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Muzik 4 Machines Muzik 4 Machines https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9550 - KVRAF
- 7829 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from Quebec
its a combination of the 2 actually, make it 150 or less and i'll accept those limitations, but logic studio costs less and is not limited, cubase costs about the same for the full version, idem for sonarsiriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
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- KVRist
- 471 posts since 5 Dec, 2007 from Location! Location!
Logic Express includes Logic Pro completely missing only a few (imo inconsequential) plugins.Muzik 4 Machines wrote:its a combination of the 2 actually, make it 150 or less and i'll accept those limitations, but logic studio costs less and is not limited, cubase costs about the same for the full version, idem for sonarsiriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
Comparatively even at 150eu, samplitude DLV would still not compare to logic express in my view.
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- KVRAF
- 2493 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Bay Area, USA
IF you use only the same basic features in the other hosts, then it's a direct comparison, and possibly worthy of a cost-only comparison.Muzik 4 Machines wrote:its a combination of the 2 actually, make it 150 or less and i'll accept those limitations, but logic studio costs less and is not limited, cubase costs about the same for the full version, idem for sonarsiriusbliss wrote:geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys
It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!
Greg
p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.
Samplitude does other things quicker and easier IME than the others, and has very well integrated native plugins and full front-to-back mix/master/burn capabilities that are somewhat distinct from the other hosts. IMO Logic studio is not a direct correlation feature-for-price-wise.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
I suppose that there is the point that VSTi can always be bounced to audio anyway...
...this is the same point made about Ableton Live 7LE (which costs less than £100, so hugely cheaper than Samplitude in spite of containing the core of the full product). 64 audio and unlimited MIDI tracks in that instance... but if you use VSTi you basically need to bounce them down.
In other words, where there are limitations, there are often workarounds. The question remains whether Samplitude is the programme that somebody wants to use... some might not like the multiple window approach and prefer a programme where they can work largely in one window. Personal choice...
...this is the same point made about Ableton Live 7LE (which costs less than £100, so hugely cheaper than Samplitude in spite of containing the core of the full product). 64 audio and unlimited MIDI tracks in that instance... but if you use VSTi you basically need to bounce them down.
In other words, where there are limitations, there are often workarounds. The question remains whether Samplitude is the programme that somebody wants to use... some might not like the multiple window approach and prefer a programme where they can work largely in one window. Personal choice...
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- KVRAF
- 2493 posts since 6 Dec, 2005 from Bay Area, USA
so, just tile the windows...???headquest wrote:I suppose that there is the point that VSTi can always be bounced to audio anyway...
...this is the same point made about Ableton Live 7LE (which costs less than £100, so hugely cheaper than Samplitude in spite of containing the core of the full product). 64 audio and unlimited MIDI tracks in that instance... but if you use VSTi you basically need to bounce them down.
In other words, where there are limitations, there are often workarounds. The question remains whether Samplitude is the programme that somebody wants to use... some might not like the multiple window approach and prefer a programme where they can work largely in one window. Personal choice...
it's always something
Greg
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christianmusicmaker christianmusicmaker https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=12152 - KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1670 posts since 1 Feb, 2004 from UK
Fair enough that is your opinion...here is minesiriusbliss wrote:
IF you use only the same basic features in the other hosts, then it's a direct comparison, and possibly worthy of a cost-only comparison.
Samplitude does other things quicker and easier IME than the others, and has very well integrated native plugins and full front-to-back mix/master/burn capabilities that are somewhat distinct from the other hosts. IMO Logic studio is not a direct correlation feature-for-price-wise.
Greg
Logic Studio is easily a direct competitor..
Far more FX than Samplitude Pro 10 (talk less of SDLV) no less than 80 effects plugins make their appearance in Logic 8.
40 Instrument plugins.
Mixing/ Mastering/Burning features as well including AC-3 encoding all part of Logic Studio.
Red book CD burning (Wave Burner)
DVD -A burning is also offered.
Audio Editing (Sound Track Pro 2) incredible value as an "add on"
Content? Samp 10 pro and especially SDLV cannot begin to compare here...
10GB for Jam Pack collections
16GB for sound effects
6GB for surround music beds
7GB for other optional content
No contest IMO.
I appreciate a certain group of users may use the same basic features in each host, and in that case even the most basic and cheapest host out there can compete with the most expensive Super hosts if a user simply wants to record, process, and perform very basic audio and midi editing tasks.
But it's the price point for SDLV that brings it directly into Logic's Studio's cross hair. No way around that IMO. At around £300 SDLV competes with Cubase 4 and Sonar 7 Producer as well.
But Logic's almost silly street price really makes SDLV's £295 tag look very outdated price wise. Logic can be had for half that price...street.
I think there will be very few users presented with the option of getting Logic Studio or SDLV, that will choose SDLV because of it's Mixing/Burning/ Mastering features.
Lets not forget Mainstage is also part of Logic Studio.
I just feel that Magix need to bring their pricing structure into 2008. It's almost as if whoever set it is seriously out of touch with the feature packed options available from Major devs and smaller devs.
The price is almost based on the market place 4 or 5 years ago! It looks totally out of touch now IMO. There are better options at...
Sub £50...
Podium: (£45) unlimited tracks, support for 32 processors, K Metering, realtime bouncing, 64bit mixing, gapless audio engine (think Ableton Live) e.t.c and IMO a really unique and powerful "Grid" Mixing upgrade in v.2.04 (most likely within a few weeks).
Reaper (Non commercial)
Sub £100
Samplitude Music Studio (yes) far better VFM IMO than SDLV. £69 or less...
Logic Express (Sub £100 street) at least 70 FX, 30+ instruments, Ultrabeat, full EXS24 sampler Guitar amp Pro, full Notation features from Logic Pro e.t.c
Sub £200
Reaper (Commercial)
Cubase Essential 16 instrument slots, 8 inserts, 64 tracks.
This is just my own choice of hosts under £200 or lower.
Sub £300 SDLV's Price point.
Sonar Producer 7
Magix have a great product on their hands but their pricing is based on the host market years ago IMO. 12 months from now that list of hosts will look even more competitive. It's going to get much harder for Magix with these kind of prices.
Last edited by christianmusicmaker on Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
