Live 9 mixing tools video

[dusted william]

Here's an example of the PDC problem:


Looking at the image you can see a simple kick drum sample, with an instance of Ozone and then an instance of volumeshaper. As you can see in volumeshaper the kick drum is delayed slightly. Without the instance of Ozone the delay isn't there and the kickdrum is aligned perfectly to the left.

I actually don't see the problem here. Why should live compensate the PDC in between a device chain. A host should normally compensate the latency of a whole track. Can you please repeat this test not adding the volume shaper to the audio track. Instead please put it on the master output.

If the latency is still there then it is really a PDC problem.

So to sum up the testcase:

Kickdrum Track: Contains the Kickdrum sampler + Ozone

Master Output: Contains the Volume shaper

I didn't believe it would be an issue either, but I recently tested it, and the results spoke for themselves.

I think the time based plugins are getting the wrong start time, the same start time as the view and automation.

-dw

[RawTech]

I didn't believe it would be an issue either, but I recently tested it, and the results spoke for themselves.

I think the time based plugins are getting the wrong start time, the same start time as the view and automation.

-dw

you are right. having time based plugins in the chain may lead to unexpected results.

[IDM Superstar]

I'm literally saying that everyone who uses Ableton as it is right now is either a bit deaf and careless, or hopelessly uncreative for having never ran into this problem.

That's right it's Jerk-o-Clock and I'm saying this fully aware of Machinedrum and other producers that I love.

you are right. having time based plugins in the chain may lead to unexpected results.

Time based plugins such as THE BUILT IN EQUALIZER.

Take a kick drum that goes THUMP, split it in two. On one side add EQ8, don't even bother changing any parameters. Leave the other empty, listen to the output.

Click EQ8 on and off to hear the difference. If you don't hear your THUMP turning into a bit more of a DONK then congratulations, you're not a producer.

[IDM Superstar]

Meanwhile, manchildren on bourgeois gear aquisition fetishist websites argue about DAW summing engines.

[dusted william]

The good news is, I hardly ever use time based plugins. I do use LFO tool, but I've always put it right after the synth or sound, so it doesn't make a difference.

I did encounter this exact same situation, but I couldn't figure out why. I thought it was the plugin, but it turns out, it was actually this bug.

dw

[RawTech]

I'm literally saying that everyone who uses Ableton as it is right now is either a bit deaf and careless, or hopelessly uncreative for having never ran into this problem.

That's right it's Jerk-o-Clock and I'm saying this fully aware of Machinedrum and other producers that I love.

you are right. having time based plugins in the chain may lead to unexpected results.

Time based plugins such as THE BUILT IN EQUALIZER.

Take a kick drum that goes THUMP, split it in two. On one side add EQ8, don't even bother changing any parameters. Leave the other empty, listen to the output.

Click EQ8 on and off to hear the difference. If you don't hear your THUMP turning into a bit more of a DONK then congratulations, you're not a producer.

Sorry can't test, I don't use Ableton. I only mentioned that it should compensate at least separate tracks. If it currently doesn't do that it is bad.

[justin3am]

I'm literally saying that everyone who uses Ableton as it is right now is either a bit deaf and careless, or hopelessly uncreative for having never ran into this problem.

Or has no problem editing things into place?
There was a time where there was no such thing as PDC, tempo synced effects existed back then too. I've learned to keep everything in time manually. It really isn't a big deal.

IMO, it's the folks that can't get anything done when they don't have features that do all the work for them, who are careless and hopelessly uncreative.

[IDM Superstar]

Or has no problem editing things into place?
There was a time where there was no such thing as PDC, tempo synced effects existed back then too. I've learned to keep everything in time manually. It really isn't a big deal.

IMO, it's the folks that can't get something done when they don't have features that do all the work for them, who are careless and hopelessly uncreative.

You almost had me, really close, except

$500

People pay for workflow, the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

[juansep]

I'm literally saying that everyone who uses Ableton as it is right now is either a bit deaf and careless, or hopelessly uncreative for having never ran into this problem.

Or has no problem editing things into place?
There was a time where there was no such thing as PDC, tempo synced effects existed back then too. I've learned to keep everything in time manually. It really isn't a big deal.

IMO, it's the folks that can't get anything done when they don't have features that do all the work for them, who are careless and hopelessly uncreative.

Yeah, exactly, THERE WAS A TIME, its 2012 now. Why don't we go live in caves and hunt animals in order to eat? I mean, going to the supermarket is too mainstream isn't it?

This bug is unjustifiable as the guy above me said, you're paying $500 bucks to make tracks fast, you pay in order to not have to deal with these kind of things. But no, adding useless samples is more important than fixing essential stuff.

[whyterabbyt]

the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

uhuh.

[Mushy Mushy]

the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

uhuh.

This is clearly why IDM is so sh!t

[justin3am]

You almost had me, really close, except

$500

People pay for workflow, the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

Yeah, exactly, THERE WAS A TIME, its 2012 now. Why don't we go live in caves and hunt animals in order to eat? I mean, going to the supermarket is too mainstream isn't it?

This bug is unjustifiable as the guy above me said, you're paying $500 bucks to make tracks fast, you pay in order to not have to deal with these kind of things. But no, adding useless samples is more important than fixing essential stuff.

I simply disagree. Fortunately, I will be able to keep working with my tools despite their flaws. Getting shit done with what I have is more important to me than complaining about the failings of the tools I use.

I'm not trying to say that your position is invalid. I'm just saying that not everyone feels the same way.

[justin3am]

the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

uhuh.

This is clearly why IDM is so sh!t

That too...

[whyterabbyt]

Yeah, exactly, THERE WAS A TIME, its 2012 now. Why don't we go live in caves and hunt animals in order to eat? I mean, going to the supermarket is too mainstream isn't it?

hmmm. to continue your rather stupid food analogy this started with 'anyone who isnt having a problem with their 'fast cooked' microwave dinner can't cook properly' and got the reply 'not an issue here; cooking from scratch aint that hard'. well done on missing the actual point a big f**king bit there.

"well the point of a cooker is to make ramen noodles fast"

[IDM Superstar]

the whole point of Ableton is bang out tracks, fast

uhuh.

This is clearly why IDM is so sh!t

name's a joke, so is this account, but honestly, the idea of an intuitive DAW focused on music production rather than audio editing is the whole reason I was so excited to ditch everything I knew and switch to Ableton

I'm just confused how it could have come so close to being absolutely amazing, and yet fell apart at such basic tasks. I still have a bunch of Ableton projects sitting around where I got weeks into really elaborate effects chains during mixing and then started noticing the horrible phasing issues

now i dont even want to revisit those tracks, i just ran out of steam

here's what just a PART of my bassline effects chain looks like, please tell me to get in there with a calculator and manually adjust latency compensation to fix the phasing issues



gets split in 2, then 1 of the 2 gets split in 2, recombined, split in 2, etc

i used it as if it were audiomulch, sadly it isn't