I am very surprised.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

It is impossible to verify that if a user transfers his user key that he/she effectively erases all copies of this MuLab / MUX user key and that he/she does not use it again. I don't want to be negative, and i'm confident that there are many honest people, but at the other hand one has to be realistic too...

there you go...

right.. and i initially interpreted it the same way you did, but mutools has since cleared up that he didn't mean it the way you and i thought he did, so let's just take his word for it cool?

[deleted]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

i can't answer on his behalf sorry.

I feel the same way about cytomic cause in all of his emails directed to me he said he allowed transfers for three years but so many people abused the system and kept the plugin, that's why he stopped them. How would he even KNOW?
so it's just paranoia.. "the only reason anyone could EVER possibly want to sell my little precious baby the glue is not because they are simply not using it anymore, but because they WANT to use it forever for free and make money on it!"




by the way he didn't see that last quote, he said his system was abused. My point is we all interpret things a certain way

[mutools]

It is impossible to verify that if a user transfers his user key that he/she effectively erases all copies of this MuLab / MUX user key and that he/she does not use it again. I don't want to be negative, and i'm confident that there are many honest people, but at the other hand one has to be realistic too...

there you go...

edit : "one has to be realistic too" does NOT sound like giving benefit of doubt to me...

Oh ok that sentence. Well good that you finally quote me, thanks!, so now at least i know what causes all this heat and confusion.

To be clear: I'm not accusing anyone personally of not being honnest. Also not you Michi. The only thing i wanted to say is that as a dev i (and all other devs) have to take the seduction of illegal copying into account. You can't deny that it is an important part of software reality. (including music, videos, anything that can be digitally copied) And that's exactly why 99.9% of the commercial software apps come with some kind of copy protection. I'm amazed to see that the simple fact that i'm mentioning this, makes several people attack me as if i have invented that reality. That's what i meant with don't shoot the pianist.

Ok guys i'm going to step back a bit from this topic. Thanks 2 all for your interesting input, sometimes a bit heated, but ok no prob. I apologize to anyone who has felt attacked by anything i wrote. It was not my intention.

Last but not last: On the topic itself: I'm going to reflect a bit on this. In the end i always want a neat and comfortable solution for both sides. Making such balance is not always easy.

Cheers!

[deleted]

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[Albert.VST]

It's not a law *yet* - just a recommendation.

I read it differently. There are laws in place and judges now have given 'recommendations' how to interpret these. And normally other judges follow these.

The topic started with IL, but mutools, as he replied with his vision, now gets a lot of negativity. But is it fair as, excuse my opinion, we are talking peanuts here in reselling. Had a quick look at the mutools shop and all is sub € 100. What do you want to resell it for? I personally don't buy second hand for more than a third of its value when new (which would include the transfer). Otherwise I buy it new.
The analogy with hardware music instruments and cars is not that valid (again in my opinion), as you will loose at least several hundreds of €/$ on your purchase price, most likely more than you will ever pay for most software. So if you buy something and do not like it anymore, accept the loss. I know, in these economical hard times some need every $/€, but that's how life sometimes is.
We accept cars will loose value in use, but with software it works in 2 years exactly as on day 1, so it keeps all value? Not as I see it.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that laws should be obeyed, but try to keep things into perspective. I also can see for some it is a matter of principles, but again, I learned life isn't always like that.


@ mutools: About support for the second/third/etc. user, if you keep track on the date when the license key, serial number etc. was originally given out, you could limit support, just like warrantee, to a certain period (within the laws ) so that would limit the effort spend on 1 license. After this period there always can be a forum to place issues on, where other users can help, or you can decide to solve some things directly.

[mutools]

PS: Michi, i do not. I simply don't know. I don't have statistical figures about that. I repeat: I'm confident (=trust) that most users are honnest.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

wow albert your second hand buying rules are unique to what i have ever seen before...

software doesn't degrade over time like a vehicle or home does.

a third OF what it is brand new?


so you'd only buy mulab for 33 euros second hand, not even half price?

wow.
That's harsh

[mutools]

edit : i didn't quote you as i thought you knew what you said and not because i were not man enough ( for whatever you regard that to be )...

FYI: I'm still amazed that that sentence has been interpreted that way. But it seems you were not alone. Thanks again for quoting me. I have edited that post of me where i put a serious question mark by the fact that you didn't quote me i.e. i take that back.

[hibidy]

Agreed

[hibidy]

I wonder, did mutools ever fix the valhalla/recabinet/whoever preset/gui issue or is still the "plug ins" fault.

Please kind sir(s) could someone please take the time out of the busy banter and answer this, or maybe it was answered somewhere in the midst of all the volleying and I just missed it?

[sjm]

software doesn't degrade over time like a vehicle or home does.

No but it becomes obsolete quickly and incompatible somewhat later, with very few exceptions.

If you disagree, d'you want to buy a bucketload of software from the 80s from me at retail price? Including things that came on cassette or 5.25" diskettes

Honestly the value of that software is now zero, irrespective of what it sold for at the time. So while the software may theoretically function exactly as it did back then, it's still not worth anything because the market has moved on, no one owns compatible hardware any more and you can download better freeware anyway.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

except of course for collectors.
I sold some of my pristine intellivision games for bucketloads.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

edit : i didn't quote you as i thought you knew what you said and not because i were not man enough ( for whatever you regard that to be )...

FYI: I'm still amazed that that sentence has been interpreted that way. But it seems you were not alone. Thanks again for quoting me. I have edited that post of me where i put a serious question mark by the fact that you didn't quote me i.e. i take that back.

there were three of us, publicly at least, that interpreted it that way.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

I wonder, did mutools ever fix the valhalla/recabinet/whoever preset/gui issue or is still the "plug ins" fault.

Please kind sir(s) could someone please take the time out of the busy banter and answer this, or maybe it was answered somewhere in the midst of all the volleying and I just missed it?

Now that's just being a hibidy

You can ask that in the official mutools forums right here at kvr and am SURE you'll get a response