The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[humanbeingbeing]

Can I just add a quick addendum pdxindy, you're saying Bitwig has good PDC and solid mixing, they're my most important things... BUT also I'm having LOADS of fun with plugins, the containers are great, they're more than a suitable replacement for me for instrument layers and with the tightest of plugins and automation, it really helps the workflow... my attitude is that the small things will be fixed soon... but definitely, definitely, Ableton has been feeling so sluggish and not fun for a LONG time, I mean I fire up Ableton, it's slow, it's clunky, even the Max4Live LFOs and followers are loose and imprecise... Bitwig is zippy and IMHO that really changes things in terms of workflow, it's the way things are going....

[ThomasHelzle]

...so I've been thinking hard about this whole situation with Ableton and Bitwig... I need to start writing an album, so I've been thinking about workarounds for the shortcomings of both apps.... the more I use Bitwig, the more I like, genuinely I was a little bit confused with it at first and a tad disappointment by the very small things that seem to be missing... that being said, I am extremely enthusiastic that Bitwig have pushed 2 updates already, they've explicitly acknowledged PDC and automation issues and I believe they will fix them shortly... I also think it's great that they are communicating wit us about bugs, I think that was Ableton's biggest mistake... now I've discovered loads of cool tricks about the app, it needs a bit of a mindshift to get the most out of it... anyway... what it is lacking I've stated in another thread:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8#p5694478

I am fortunate to have a second hackintosh computer with Ableton.. my plan is to use it to solve this midi problem with network midi and rtpMidi on my windows computer, this has worked well before... tempo sync may be an issue, we will see, BUT potentially it would allow me to use my APC to send midi from Ableton into Bitwig legato style.... another thing it could allow is for me to take audio parts in ableton and move them to Bitwig... I could even Jack the two systems... this would've been a timing nightmare before, but if it's compensated, then it's ok... midi and audio will be fine.

I may still need to use Cubase to mix, but now that I don't have to worry about timing issues with Bitwig, I can actually write parts that stay the same, and I can mix with whatever compressors and eqs as I'm working, which is the modern thing to do... I don't like writing tunes that sound like shit, then expecting to 'fix' them in Cubase... hopefully Bitwig will allow for music production that is tight and if I have to resort to Ableton for it's lost features, then so be it-- UNTIL Bitwig fixes their issues which hopefully will be very soon.

In my view, Bitwig 1.0 is best for open minded people like you humanbeingbeing, who take what's there and what's great and inspiring and go elsewhere for what's missing. That's what I do as well.
For the one-daw purists or people already being equipped with a tool that does all they need, I can see that BWS isn't as attractive now, and it may take a while until it catches up with tools that are on the market for ages.
For me personally, some restrictions are often actually more creative since I need to come up with solutions, which stimulates my brain. Tools that can do everything feel sometimes boring to me.
I'm weird like that

I find it great that now, after the initial hyperbole and exaggeration (going in both directons) has settled a bit, people start to think about how to incorporate a new tool in their setups and what to best do with it.

I really look forward to see what will come up over the coming months!

Cheers,

Tom

[ThomasHelzle]

One more thing for those still following this thread:
There is something special about Pitch Bend in Bitwig. In the inspector for the track, there is a switch called "Convert Pitch-bend". I tried through the beta to get this to be disabled by default, but it isn't.
What it does it converting normal Pitch Bend to per-note-pitch-expression.
Since this only works for the factory instruments ATM, I don't think it's a good idea to have it as the default, because it prevents all VSTs to work with normal Pitch Bend.
So if you find that Pitch Bend doesn't work, try that one!

Cheers,

Tom

[LawrenceF]

In my view, Bitwig 1.0 is best for open minded people like you humanbeingbeing,
Tom

A version 1.0 anything re: software is best with an open mind.

I jumped on "Vegas Video" at 1.0 I think and it certainly wasn't a fully professional video editor. Now "Sony Vegas" is a really great application imo. But sure, without being open minded enough to frame the 1.0 into a proper context it would have made very little sense to buy it ... when I could have just as easily purchased Adobe Premiere or something, a more developed product with more useful features already.

But I liked the "idea" and general workflow layout / paradigm of Vegas, and I could see the long term vision, so I bought it. Never regretted buying it. Love Vegas.

[pdxindy]

Can I just add a quick addendum pdxindy, you're saying Bitwig has good PDC and solid mixing, they're my most important things... BUT also I'm having LOADS of fun with plugins, the containers are great, they're more than a suitable replacement for me for instrument layers and with the tightest of plugins and automation, it really helps the workflow... my attitude is that the small things will be fixed soon... but definitely, definitely, Ableton has been feeling so sluggish and not fun for a LONG time, I mean I fire up Ableton, it's slow, it's clunky, even the Max4Live LFOs and followers are loose and imprecise... Bitwig is zippy and IMHO that really changes things in terms of workflow, it's the way things are going....

I stopped using the M4L LFO's... in big part because I cannot stand the constant animation... I was disappointed that the Bitwig LFO's do the same thing. I'm also disappointed that the Bitwig LFO's have no way to apply an envelope to create a fade in for example. That can be worked around, but by then it is easier just to draw the automation I wanted in the first place.

What I would really like is the ability to 'print' the LFO to automation. Or, have an automation window that has a bunch of flexible template curves like the Massive sequencer.

I understand your viewpoint and if Bitwig works for you, great. Diversity is good. I do suspect that there are people who are trying Bitwig who feel it has a 'good workflow' who will not feel that way in a month. I keep finding things that need work... like drag the velocity handle of a midi note up or down and you do not hear how it sounds. That is workflow stuff to me.

Down the road I hope Bitwig replaces Live for me. At the moment, Bitwig is buggy, unreliable, PDC does not work correctly, and the timing is not rock solid (play a bunch of clips and after a while the timing goes off).

If you turn off a plug-in, it still uses CPU... ouch
midi import export does not work right
no time signature changes (lots of popular songs could not be made in Bitwig)

[LawrenceF]

Dumb Question #442:

I have a midi drum track and I want to split it up to use the stock drum synths on the individual parts, to get a feel for those without programming. Is that possible?

Thanks.

Edit: I'll take that as a no. Anywho's, here's a link to a pic of a midi project running at 32 samples on the Audiobox VSL44. Lots of single instances of Kontakt 4, Mach 5, AD on the drums, some of the internal drum synths supplementing, using some 32-bit audio plugs bridged, etc, etc. Runs really smoothly, not a single audio glitch or dropout at 32 samples.

http://theaudiocave.com/pics/cpu1.JPG

That's enough demoing for me. You guys enjoy.

[ThomasHelzle]

Dumb answer #442 I don't understand the question

I was out in the sun today... Berlin had another fabulous spring day

Cheers,

Tom

[LawrenceF]

No biggie. I had AD playing a mid drum track and I wanted to split up all of the note pitches to new tracks and run the drum sounds through the BWS drum synths instead.

Re: Spring day. We've had the promise but not quite the result yet. It's... approaching 40 at high noon and all of the ice still hasn't melted yet. Soon.

It's not spring here until you can shut off your furnace and leave it off. Being 2 PM here it's 35 degrees, barely above freezing.

[ThomasHelzle]

No biggie. I had AD playing a mid drum track and I wanted to split up all of the note pitches to new tracks and run the drum sounds through the BWS drum synths instead.

Can't you just drop the DrumMachine behind AD and drag the drum Pads around to your liking? Sounds easier and Midi Routing doesn't exist yet...

We had the most beautiful Winter this year, very warm and lots of sun, then two weeks of real cold and snow in January and from then on mostly sun and rather warm again.
Cherry trees are already blooming for a while (the first started months ago already...)

Crazy weather, but so far very nice

Cheers,

Tom

[LawrenceF]

Didn't try that. No biggie.

I wanted to use (actually did use) the Kick and Snare generators and those things on individual tracks to see how that comes out. It's maybe the case that I could have gotten that same thing done another way but I've already closed the song and will probably uninstall so, no biggie.

As a side note, the "kick drum generator thing-a-ma-bob widget" sounds nice. I liked it. That's a good idea, especially for the genres that Bitwig is mostly catering to. Maybe not so much need to go digging through sample libraries for that, just load and layer and apply FX to a few of those and make your monster dance kick drum or whatever. Pretty handy.

We had the most beautiful Winter this year, very warm and lots of sun, then two weeks of real cold and snow in January and from then on mostly sun and rather warm again.
Cherry trees are already blooming for a while (the first started months ago already...)

Lucky you.

I've spent the last 4+ months feeling like an Urban Eskimo. Maybe the worst winter I can recall here ... ever... so... I've been doing the Yogi Bear thing, mostly hibernating.

I visited Germany 3 times, all in the late fall / early winter, way back when I was younger in the military, and I don't recall it being anything like here in Michigan, not nearly as bad.

One person's "Winter Wonderland" is another persons major headache.

[humanbeingbeing]

Can I just add a quick addendum pdxindy, you're saying Bitwig has good PDC and solid mixing, they're my most important things... BUT also I'm having LOADS of fun with plugins, the containers are great, they're more than a suitable replacement for me for instrument layers and with the tightest of plugins and automation, it really helps the workflow... my attitude is that the small things will be fixed soon... but definitely, definitely, Ableton has been feeling so sluggish and not fun for a LONG time, I mean I fire up Ableton, it's slow, it's clunky, even the Max4Live LFOs and followers are loose and imprecise... Bitwig is zippy and IMHO that really changes things in terms of workflow, it's the way things are going....

I stopped using the M4L LFO's... in big part because I cannot stand the constant animation... I was disappointed that the Bitwig LFO's do the same thing. I'm also disappointed that the Bitwig LFO's have no way to apply an envelope to create a fade in for example. That can be worked around, but by then it is easier just to draw the automation I wanted in the first place.

What I would really like is the ability to 'print' the LFO to automation. Or, have an automation window that has a bunch of flexible template curves like the Massive sequencer.

I understand your viewpoint and if Bitwig works for you, great. Diversity is good. I do suspect that there are people who are trying Bitwig who feel it has a 'good workflow' who will not feel that way in a month. I keep finding things that need work... like drag the velocity handle of a midi note up or down and you do not hear how it sounds. That is workflow stuff to me.

Down the road I hope Bitwig replaces Live for me. At the moment, Bitwig is buggy, unreliable, PDC does not work correctly, and the timing is not rock solid (play a bunch of clips and after a while the timing goes off).

If you turn off a plug-in, it still uses CPU... ouch
midi import export does not work right
no time signature changes (lots of popular songs could not be made in Bitwig)

All these things I agree with... to be fair the whole modulator thing is probably due to overcoming shortcomings with the underlying protocols themselves, but the M4L ones are so bad it's shocking... Bitwig is becoming more usable for me as time goes on,it's an investment in a new thing just like I made an investment in Ableton back in 2003.... I actually think despite missing some really obvious stuff, for a version 1.0 app, Bitwig have done pretty well....but I'll be watching closely to see how quickly they fix things and how well they communicate their progress.... I'm very impressed by the response on the new PDC concerns..... PDC is probably my biggest gripe of them all, I could use my Cubase7.5 license, but we all know what the workflow story is with that.

[ThomasHelzle]

Laymans Surround Setup in Bitwig Studio

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p5697335



Cheers,

Tom

[humanbeingbeing]

I understand your viewpoint and if Bitwig works for you, great. Diversity is good. I do suspect that there are people who are trying Bitwig who feel it has a 'good workflow' who will not feel that way in a month.

I actually predict the opposite!.. the more I get used to it, the more I am flying around it... I actually finished a dub reggae track with Bitwig last night and I couldn't believe how quickly I had it done... and I've been doing some dubstep & dnb also, really liking it, and the PDC thing again to beat an old horse, it means I can do things I just couldn't do reliably in Ableton... I've been doing a lot of low-mid-high splits on bass sounds all with automated VST chains on each band, I couldn't do that with Ableton and to me, the tightness is audible, I'm not spending so much time going back and adjusting things, plus with Ableton I had this whole habit of practicing ideas either with the session view or saving a part of the arrangement and then editing it all together, obviously with bouncing being a bit part of that process... that is much easier in Bitwig and SO MUCH FASTER... I just had to get used to doing more in the session view and bare in mind, when I was working in Ableton I had to be cognizant that once I had produced/enhanced my sounds with channel strip stuff I had to either bounce or watch my automation, either no new automated FX could be added or the old ones would have to be adjusted.... not having to do that! AMAZING to me.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

has anyone else noticed they pushed the 1.0.2 update later today? (few hrs after 1.0.1), so I'm guessing that's a hotfix for something, but no release notes I have found..

Finally they are getting Real Beta Testers at work.
Theo is next

No need to be scared.. Have spent time with it and i'm 50/50. I don't want to comment properly yet until I have covered the full performance and crash testing and also the things i do and don't like about it. Ok, maybe be scared as it will be a mega post

I will have a lot of questions myself, like, i can't see a way to vertically resize tracks (besides automation ones) in the main arrange page. I am sure that absolutely has to be possible so I must be doing something wrong and need to read the manual. There's lots of little niggles with it so far. And lots of good stuff. It's probably worth the money for the stretch alone, but at this stage not as a main host for me. Sadly, it doesn't have rewire, and if it did, i'd buy it to support bitwig and slave to logic for the stretch. I am finding many scenarios which I am getting frustrated and yet again others that make me think "how cool". But I will be honest about it when my big review post is done. And I will say this, I think it has a long way to go before being a truly competitive product as an overall DAW.

[dsan@mail.com]

I'm looking forward to your review Theo!

I agree with your statement "I am finding many scenarios which I am getting frustrated and yet again others that make me think "how cool".

But the thing I love most - hasn't crashed yet. I am ecstatic. By now Live would have been down at least 8 times.

I was totally surpised it didn't crash due to out of memory error. Ran at 97 percent of my 8 Gb for quite a while before I decided I better release some memory

Not to say at a later time it won't crash but for now it is impressive.

Happy Musiking!
dsan