$xxx life time update.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

With imageline i believe it has worked because
1) the software is insanely popular
2) They have a huge catalog of products to support the company vs not getting update payments for FL studio
3) They don't have copy protection overhead costs.. just a basic designed in house reg file that is for show really

But Theo, we started with one product and there were lifetime free updates from day 1.

Regards Scott

so, how do i know what money you made back then? And boxed versions do not have the lifetime updates.

And i distinctly remember upgrading from fruity loops to fl studio producer.. so a big load of income came for you guys there, for sure, with probably hundreds of thousands of people doing that upgrade.

are you telling me you had the staff size and bank account when it was just fruity loops?

And not long after there was fruity tracks, sim synth, then sytrus as a fl only plugin at first, and so on.

I think you are really over reaching with your statement. But then, i pretty much don't agree with a single thing you say, as you know

[ATS]

So you're saying that you like young boys?

[joeyfivecents]

I've been using FL Studio since 2003 and love it. I've been using Live since 2004 and love it as well. But, after I stepped up to Live Suite and got Push 1, here comes Ableton with Push 2 and their very expensive upgrade price....Makes me feel dumb for investing in Suite and Push when they are constantly adding new products and trying to charge me an exorbitant amount to stay current. Same goes for Reason; $129 to upgrade to Reason 9 after I've spent hundreds on RE's, etc. Makes me think I will probably never give those companies any more of my money and just let their stuff become obsolete while I sit back and use FL knowing I never have to spend another dime on it if I don't want to (and I will gladly buy their extra plugins whenever I can afford it). Obviously I'm going to be more loyal to FL. Seems like Ableton and some of these other companies would make more money if they gave lifetime free upgrades/updates if those percentages Scott put out are correct. I have no reason to think they aren't.

As has been mentioned, it might a good business model for them, but not for others. FL Studio has a lot less employees than Steinberg for example. And they have a completely different business model. Cockos have a lot less employees, and yet another business model, but seem to be doing alright. I don't think there's the one correct way. What about the companies which used to do a DAW, but have gotten bankrupt, is their business model a failure? Or good, and they just had bad luck, or didn't do their advertising or PR craft?



First of all, i would say people choose FL Studio for the workflow, not for the business model. And the say surely holds true for other DAW's as well. I wouldn't want to work with FL Studio, no matter what the business model is. I'm used to another workflow, and i tried it out a couple of times, it doesn't suit me. Each to his like.

Yes, I read the entire thread. Was just offering my personal view as I've been doing this for a while.

[Image-Line]

1. And boxed versions do not have the lifetime updates.

2. And i distinctly remember upgrading from fruity loops to fl studio producer.. so a big load of income came for you guys there, for sure, with probably hundreds of thousands of people doing that upgrade.

1. The boxed version (that started shipping in 2001, FL 3) has included Lifetime Free Updates since FL 9 (in 2009). The reason we didn't include LFU in the box initially was that we make substantially less from a box than a direct sale. The 'fee' for LFU was, and still is, for people with Box 8 and lower at $39. This fee was never was a lot of money and was about guaranteeing we actually made money from box sales at a time when they were competing (negatively) with our online sales.

2. The "upgrade" (as you said yourself) was the introduction of Audio Recording, we decided to spin this into a new version and introduced Producer Edition (at $199 up from $99). We were adding significant new features and wanted to introduce a new price tier/product level. People who didn't want to 'upgrade' can still download FL Studio 'Fruity edition' 12 to this day. No extra money down. BTW: This happened at version 4 in 2003 (13 years ago). Until then we only had one $99 edition. Later came Signature Bundle $299 and then All Plugins Bundle $700(ish).

About ''overreaching", I am in a good position to know how we have got to this point. The entire company has grown around Lifetime Free Updates from Day 1. Everything else we have sold (except EZGenerator, which experimented with a subscription model and is a legacy product now) has also included free updates. The minor restructuring of FL Studio in 2003 was a pricing-change and does not represent any sort of failure of the LFU model.

I am not sure if you noticed, not only do we have LFU but we periodically start giving stuff away. Maximus and Sytrus, that were included free in Producer Edition 12. Click here (cued video) -->both just got major vectorial UI updates in 12.3
EDIT: For the record I didn't intend to spam this thread with the FL Studio 12.3 video, I inserted a url cued to the point in the video and the forum decided to insert it as the full video

Regards Scott

[incubus]

(super biting lip)

Anyways, since this is a FL thread now, when is 13 coming? Would be nice to see some audio love. (like nice easy ways of recording tracks w/o all the crazy wheels you have to jump through, see reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic/DP as example )

[Image-Line]

(super biting lip)

Anyways, since this is a FL thread now, when is 13 coming? Would be nice to see some audio love. (like nice easy ways of recording tracks w/o all the crazy wheels you have to jump through, see reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic/DP as example )

FL Studio 13 will include radically improved audio handling and time signatures (I know you didn't ask but someone will). One of the really great things about LFU is we don't need to hide what's coming for fear it will impact sales. If we don't confirm something, it's because we are not sure ourselves.

But this is audio recording in FL Studio, I don't think it is a lot of 'hoops', I count 4 steps, and about 5 seconds to start recording ... 1. Select an input, 2. Arm for record, 3. Press play, 4. Press stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-FD0n_Ynk

How many clicks does reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic take?

Regards Scott

[Hink]

(super biting lip)

Anyways, since this is a FL thread now, when is 13 coming? Would be nice to see some audio love. (like nice easy ways of recording tracks w/o all the crazy wheels you have to jump through, see reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic/DP as example )

FL Studio 13 will include radically improved audio handling and time signatures (I know you didn't ask but someone will). One of the really great things about LFU is we don't need to hide what's coming for fear it will impact sales. If we don't confirm something, it's because we are not sure ourselves.

But this is audio recording in FL Studio, I don't think it is a lot of 'hoops', I count 4 steps, and about 5 seconds to start recording ... 1. Select an input, 2. Arm for record, 3. Press play, 4. Press stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-FD0n_Ynk

How many clicks does reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic take?

Regards Scott

yeah but it wasn't always this way and I got use to something different, it isn't just recording. Samp's editing abilities on the wave in place without having to use an editor is something I am use to. Even if every other DAW has the same thing after 9 years of using Samp it's become very comfortable and it has some handy features like comparisonics, spectral editing, multi point auto punch, objects, revolver tracks and more I do without thinking, all of which have become a part of my workflow. I have a complicated set up, recording up to three mics, dry signal, line out, and fx out and all just for one guitar take...I got it down pat now so if it aint broke

FL is still very creative an inspirational for me for midi, working with vsti's and such but there is just no reason or sense in my relearning it's newer audio handling when I have gelled with what I have been using for so long...that would be counter-productive...like I said, my not preferring FL's audio is on me...not IL

[incubus]

How many clicks does reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic take?

Regards Scott

Less But I have to be honest with you, despite my constant prodding a) I appreciate the link and b) will look forward to TS changes. Can be very important.

[LawrenceF]

Off the rails, as usual.

Look, Scott has a legitimate point about the viability of what they do. They've done it and they've proven it works for them, so there's no argument to be made there. They've done it long enough to prove that it works for them. The reasonable argument (if any) is when or if he implies that everyone else should be doing the same thing, or asks why they all don't do that, and we all (should) know better than that.

We all live in the real world where things just don't work that way, so implying they all should is a non-starter.

My question would be (if I were engaged in that discussion) ... how many people do they employ? Like chk said earlier, supporting 200 employees (especially if they get decent salaries and benefits) 'aint the same as support 5 or 10... or running a small shop, no matter what the product does or is capable of.

The daw world (on the Internet anyway) has this bad habit of trying to make everything fit into the same box.

[joeyfivecents]

For the people that actually LIKE the way FL handles audio, please don't change it too much. And please don't change the way FL prints whatever effects you have in the mixer into recorded audio. Please.

[Image-Line]

For the people that actually LIKE the way FL handles audio, please don't change it too much. And please don't change the way FL prints whatever effects you have in the mixer into recorded audio. Please.

All the original functionality will remain. We well know any functionality is removed from the sacred FL Studio workflow at our peril

Regards Scott

[incubus]

(super biting lip)

Anyways, since this is a FL thread now, when is 13 coming? Would be nice to see some audio love. (like nice easy ways of recording tracks w/o all the crazy wheels you have to jump through, see reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic/DP as example )

FL Studio 13 will include radically improved audio handling and time signatures (I know you didn't ask but someone will). One of the really great things about LFU is we don't need to hide what's coming for fear it will impact sales. If we don't confirm something, it's because we are not sure ourselves.

But this is audio recording in FL Studio, I don't think it is a lot of 'hoops', I count 4 steps, and about 5 seconds to start recording ... 1. Select an input, 2. Arm for record, 3. Press play, 4. Press stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-FD0n_Ynk

How many clicks does reaper/sonar/reason/cubase/tracktion/mulabs/logic take?

Regards Scott

Maybe my issue was doing that with a plug in enabled. I dunno. I guess it's been a year since I tried it, so it's about that time

[murnau]

As usual people bashing certain workflows in FL which don't have a clue about it. Useless.

[incubus]

As usual people bashing certain workflows in FL which don't have a clue about it. Useless.

Almost NOBODY is doing that you twit. Most of it is just joking or having a DIFFERENT OPINION.

Get over yourself.

[Hink]

As usual people bashing certain workflows in FL which don't have a clue about it. Useless.

I hope this is not direct at me because I am not bashing FL's workflows by stating they are not the same as my workflow