Upgrade to Live 9 (10) Suite for £191 OR get Bitwig for £265 (on sale)?

[whyterabbyt]

When things like VCV rack exist for FREE or Air Hybrid 3 can be bought for $1 no one has any excuse for spending money they don't have

wont stop some folk whining about having to spend money on stuff they want but dont actually need, though.

[dellboy]

When things like VCV rack exist for FREE or Air Hybrid 3 can be bought for $1 no one has any excuse for spending money they don't have

You are oversimplifying it.

Some people have too much money and waste it.

Others have adequate income but are careful how they spend it.

I am in the market for either Live or Bitwig.

I think that Bitwig is probably the better daw,but in the long run Live has the better upgrade plan. Prior to the introduction of Bitwigs "New Licence Model" it was even steven between them. For the moment Live is sticking to the old order,and chastened by the demise of Cakewalk they hopefully will not change their upgrade model,so thats the way I am leaning at the moment.And hopefully the wise adage will prevail - If it aint broke,why try to fix it ?

[dellboy]

When things like VCV rack exist for FREE or Air Hybrid 3 can be bought for $1 no one has any excuse for spending money they don't have

wont stop some folk whining about having to spend money on stuff they want but dont actually need, though.

Its human nature to want what others have got.

And secondly, is music in its entirety a need or a want ?

[pdxindy]

But since the Op asked for some specific reasons to go Bitwig (in no specific order):

- One of the major points is the very intuitive and flexible modulation system in BWS 2.x. Modulate every device parameter with as many modulators as you want. They are running at audio rate so you get extremely tight results and can for instance build your own compressors, drive individual EQ-values, add sidechaining to plugins that don't have it and even do FM synthesis with the new AudioRate modulator. Each device can have as many modulators as needed, modulators can modulate modulators and they are saved in device presets for instant recall. This alone makes Bitwig very special.

And that does not even explain it in much detail... The modulators include type macro knobs. So each device can have an arbitrary number of macro knobs. If you click on the device, the inspector will show all the modulators and all the parameters they are each modulating. From the inspector, you can add or delete modulation targets for any of the modulators in that device and you can adjust the parameter range for each of the parameters being modulated. And you can do that even with the modulators folded away so there is not a lot of scrolling around or a visually confusing workspace. It is well ordered and easy to see what is doing what and then edit.

Try adding 3 LFO and 3 Envelope devices in Live, then assign say 20 different parameters to them... then try keeping track of it and quickly editing stuff. It is clunky by comparison both for navigation and editing/assigning parameters.

Also, in Bitwig, say you always add an envelope follow modulator to the compressor device. Once you have added the modulator, right click on the compressor device and save as default preset and every new instance of the compressor will have the modulators as you saved them.

Then there are the Remote Controls which are simple to create and can also be saved as part of the default preset for each device.

It is an elegant, integrated system that is easy, creative and fun to use.

[SLiC]

When things like VCV rack exist for FREE or Air Hybrid 3 can be bought for $1 no one has any excuse for spending money they don't have

You are oversimplifying it.

Some people have too much money and waste it.

Others have adequate income but are careful how they spend it.

I am in the market for either Live or Bitwig.

I think that Bitwig is probably the better daw,but in the long run Live has the better upgrade plan. Prior to the introduction of Bitwigs "New Licence Model" it was even steven between them. For the moment Live is sticking to the old order,and chastened by the demise of Cakewalk they hopefully will not change their upgrade model,so thats the way I am leaning at the moment.And hopefully the wise adage will prevail - If it aint broke,why try to fix it ?

Bitwig is under 299 USD and you will 'definitely' get a years free updates, major revisions included and Live Suite (Live Standard is now a very poor relation with 10) costs over double that $640 USD (with the current promotion 20% off at Sweetwater). Live suite would have to be twice as good as Bitwig to be better value (and you say that Bitwig is probably the better daw). Bitwig would appear to be the better value in my opinion for people starting out (ands like I said, I have both so a horse in both races so to speak!), the argument on upgrading 9-10 or getting Bitwig (as asked by the OP) is different, if you already have Live and it does what you need it to do, stay with it (and if you can wait the Live 9 -10 will also be on sale at some point!)

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money, but over 50% of all of the money in the world is owned by just 8 people!!)

[SHall1000]

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money, but over 50% of all of the money in the world is owned by just 8 people!!)

Would like to see a reference for that one if you have one please.

[SHall1000]

OK I found one.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pres ... half-world

The world’s 8 richest people are, in order of net worth:

Bill Gates: America founder of Microsoft (net worth $75 billion)
Amancio Ortega: Spanish founder of Inditex which owns the Zara fashion chain (net worth $67 billion)
Warren Buffett: American CEO and largest shareholder in Berkshire Hathaway (net worth $60.8 billion)
Carlos Slim Helu: Mexican owner of Grupo Carso (net worth: $50 billion)
Jeff Bezos: American founder, chairman and chief executive of Amazon (net worth: $45.2 billion)
Mark Zuckerberg: American chairman, chief executive officer, and co-founder of Facebook (net worth $44.6 billion)
Larry Ellison: American co-founder and CEO of Oracle (net worth $43.6 billion)
Michael Bloomberg: American founder, owner and CEO of Bloomberg LP (net worth: $40 billion)

Oxfam’s calculations are based on global wealth distribution data provided by the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Data book 2016

The wealth of the world’s richest people was calculated using Forbes' billionaires list last published in March 2016.

[SLiC]

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money, but over 50% of all of the money in the world is owned by just 8 people!!)

Would like to see a reference for that one if you have one please.

I got it from here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Done-Billion-D ... B06XSSCVM2

Which is an amazing book- should be compulsory reading! Why things really happen in the world the way they happen- not conspiracy theories, well researched facts that are actuality more scary, changed the way I think about things....

[dellboy]

Bitwig is under 299 USD and you will 'definitely' get a years free updates, major revisions included and Live Suite (Live Standard is now a very poor relation with 10) costs over double that $640 USD (with the current promotion 20% off at Sweetwater). Live suite would have to be twice as good as Bitwig to be better value (and you say that Bitwig is probably the better daw). Bitwig would appear to be the better value in my opinion for people starting out (ands like I said, I have both so a horse in both races so to speak!), the argument on upgrading 9-10 or getting Bitwig (as asked by the OP) is different, if you already have Live and it does what you need it to do, stay with it (and if you can wait the Live 9 -10 will also be on sale at some point!)

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money, but over 50% of all of the money in the world is owned by just 8 people!!)

The first notion of "a years free updates" can be quickly discarded because you have just paid for them.

What is the point of version numbers anymore if it is no longer a significant upgrade ?

The "dribble update" model is,well, just plain boring. It lacks the pressure on developers to push the boat out with "wow" new features.

Bug fixes should be mandatory by law for a specified length of time.

[dellboy]

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money

This is of course true.

Mega-rich people are rarely satisfied with what they have.

There continues an infinite lust to increase their wealth.

Death tends to sort that problem out for them in the end.

[ThomasHelzle]

The update is now reduced as well - 129$
https://www.bitwig.com/en/shop/webshop.html

Cheers,

Tom

[SLiC]

The update is now reduced as well - 129$
https://www.bitwig.com/en/shop/webshop.html

Cheers,

Tom

Great news, hopefully a few more people will be able to enjoy 2.2 now

[SLiC]

Bitwig is under 299 USD and you will 'definitely' get a years free updates, major revisions included and Live Suite (Live Standard is now a very poor relation with 10) costs over double that $640 USD (with the current promotion 20% off at Sweetwater). Live suite would have to be twice as good as Bitwig to be better value (and you say that Bitwig is probably the better daw). Bitwig would appear to be the better value in my opinion for people starting out (ands like I said, I have both so a horse in both races so to speak!), the argument on upgrading 9-10 or getting Bitwig (as asked by the OP) is different, if you already have Live and it does what you need it to do, stay with it (and if you can wait the Live 9 -10 will also be on sale at some point!)

(PS- I am not sure you can have too much money, but over 50% of all of the money in the world is owned by just 8 people!!)

The first notion of "a years free updates" can be quickly discarded because you have just paid for them.

What is the point of version numbers anymore if it is no longer a significant upgrade ?

The "dribble update" model is,well, just plain boring. It lacks the pressure on developers to push the boat out with "wow" new features.

Bug fixes should be mandatory by law for a specified length of time.

Bitwig does increase version numbers, it went from V1 to V2 and it was that (the features already in V2) that I paid 160 bucks for, I would have paid that without the years free updates, so everything else I got over the year was as far as I am concerned a free bonus.

What makes you think there wont be a big Bigwig V3 update in February/March? I suspect most people will update on the V3 based on the V3 features, no one updates for what may happen in the future (the years free updates- no one knows what they will be!) people update for what they are actually getting in the current version...(or at least I do!)

Bug fixes for a specified length of time are a good idea (like a warranty), but no DAW manufactures offers this...some DAWS and VSTs just cease to be and these isn't much anyone can do about it.

PS- Death doesn't cure the imbalance of wealth due to inheritance...

[dellboy]

PS- Death doesn't cure the imbalance of wealth due to inheritance...

True.

But due to karma the rich guy is reborn as a poor musician who can only afford Reaper.

He writes a song called "Bitwig blues".

[.jon]

I have been using live for many many years and while I love it it is more CPU hungry than reaper, no contest really. ALl the heavy plugins (diva, serum, reaktor) run with way less cpu in reaper.

They don't. Reapers own cpu meter just shows a smaller percentage in its default setting. Actual cpu usage as displayed by windows task manager is even or slightly in favour of Live. This is a simple verifiable fact, and the reason is simple: VST plugins are the programs responsible for the DSP instructions. No daw magic can make those algorithms consume less cpu and still sound the same.

True, no daw can make the VSTs algorithms faster, but they can do their own things faster. With one plugin Live probably can be slightly faster, because...

...here I wanted write about different multi-thread optimizations, and other things, but I just checked with different VSTs, and I couldn't reproduce this at all (with the task manager of course), so I just close this whit my observation, I can use average 30-50% more plugin in my Reaper projects before the crackling, with the same audio device settings. I think this is the common experience with Reaper, so maybe you have a local technical problem (or just a very specific use case).

More likely you have a technical problem preventing your system from running efficiently. The things a daw does are pretty much irrelevant resource-wise compared to the DSP code producing audio. My tests have been done with multiple instances of synths and fx plugins from various reputable developers representing a typical electronic music project. The test is relevant to my use case and conclusive for me and unless someone actually posts a credible, replicable test with different results, I'm content with sticking to reality, facts and results aligned with common sense.