Choosing between Bitwig and Ableton

[BDeep]

Great, Bitwig it will be then

Once you bought that, then the endless spending for yet another vst-synth/effect that you definitely must have can begin

[ThomasHelzle]

The direct integration between clip launcher and arranger in BWS was a big thing for me.
In Live I used to hate the arranger and rather used Studio One instead for linear things.
Since I got BWS, I no longer use S1 much.

And yes, BWS has some limitations. For some they are a blocker, for me they are mostly inspirational to come up with creative solutions - I rather adapt to a tool I like instead of working with something I don't (anymore that is - I used to love Live for many years after Cubase annoyed the hell out of me for a long time without me realizing it in times when DAWs were not as easily available as today. But BWS was as big a step for me personally as the step from Cubase to Live in what creative freedom I gained).

I also find Usine Hollyhock a good companion to BWS in the cases where I want to go even more experimental, it replaces m4l for me, which I never was very fond of.

Isn't it fun to have all this choice?

Cheers,

Tom

[arca0]

Great, Bitwig it will be then

Once you bought that, then the endless spending for yet another vst-synth/effect that you definitely must have can begin

Indeed, I am leaning towards Bitwig a bit more and I really wish I were at the stage of endless spending on vst's/effects already I do however feel like I'm missing something when it comes to Ableton - it simply has such a huge following that I find it hard to believe that Bitwig - which is significantly cheaper than Ableton - is up to par with it. Weird impression.

And yes, BWS has some limitations. For some they are a blocker, for me they are mostly inspirational to come up with creative solutions - I rather adapt to a tool I like instead of working with something I don't (anymore that is - I used to love Live for many years after Cubase annoyed the hell out of me for a long time without me realizing it in times when DAWs were not as easily available as today. But BWS was as big a step for me personally as the step from Cubase to Live in what creative freedom I gained).

I also find Usine Hollyhock a good companion to BWS in the cases where I want to go even more experimental, it replaces m4l for me, which I never was very fond of.

Tom, care to share a bit about these limitations you've mentioned? I did not find any significant ones myself, but I fear I might not have enough experience and could miss something that proves significant in the long run.

Also, Usine Hollyhock looks pretty iiiiiinteresting... will really take a look at it once I've made my choice

[ThomasHelzle]

I'm not the best one to tell you about those limitations since they are not really relevant for me personally.
I'm sure others can chime in who find them more problematic.

If you start out, I can not imagine that "limitations" will be a big deal for you, since Live and BWS both will keep you busy for quite a while even with their individual "limitations" (yes, Live has them too ).

You have to start with something and whatever it is, it will be your "partner in crime" for a while. Over time you will find out what you like and what you don't like and as others pointed out, may either stay with the initial choice or move on. It's a journey and you can not know where it will lead beforehand
That is part of the fun...

As for price: Live but especially Live Suite come with a huge collection of samples and instruments and m4l which are a big part of what you pay for. I personally found out over time, that I don't like to rely on stuff that is locked to a specific DAW since it limits my freedom to recreate something in another software. So I moved to mostly using non-DAW specific effects and especially instruments and even try to primarily chose cross-platform plugins. This way I can move something from BWS to Usine without the problem of DAW specific samples, effects or instruments.

But that's just me, your needs may be completely different.

And keep in mind: Bitwig is just a bit over a year old, Live is there since 2001. So of course Live has much more followers and users, it is the "gold standard" for anything "live" so to say and had no real competition for most of that time until BWS came out last year. Ableton lost me personally with the Live 9 update which was totally backwards IMO (but others love it of course ).

Cheers,

Tom

[arca0]

Thanks Tom, I really appreciate your opinions.

In fact, what you're saying might just be one of the more important factors for me. While Live Suite's collection is impressive, if it cannot be used in any other tool - it might just be a showstopper for me. The moment I decide to migrate to / use some other tool, these become unavailable to me?

[ThomasHelzle]

Yes.
If you want to sell the DAW, you also lose the right to use all included samples, the effects and instruments only work inside of Live anyway, since they have their own format.
This is also true for Bitwig and pretty much any other DAW.
Some bundle VSTs but often they only work inside the target-DAW.

If you keep Live, you can use the samples in another DAW if they are available as wav or aif, but not the effects and instruments.

Those huge internal libraries are a way to increase the perceived value of a software ("whoa, look at all the stuff I get"). And it is also part of making users dependent on the product - the more you rely on DAW specific content, the harder it is to switch to something else...
The music business is pretty fierce, each manufacturer tries more or less aggressive to bind you to his platform. Apple/Logic is the prime example since you also need to buy into the hardware and OS, but most larger DAWs do the same up to a point.
While I wouldn't worry about it too much, it makes sense (IMO) to be aware of it and take those offers with a grain of salt.

If you want to work experimentally, it may be more interesting to get yourself a mobile recorder to create your own samples or some hardware gear.

But again, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The most interesting creative results come out of limitations, not from having every DAW, sample, effect and instrument under the sun on your drive.

As for free instruments: this is a quite good list to start with: http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/12- ... ths-615790

Cheers,

Tom

[BDeep]

Pretty much what Tom already said, Live has been around much longer, Bitwig is still fresh. Which is why Live has a larger userbase.

About 3rd party instruments vs native ones, it's never easy (if possible at all) to migrate tracks from one DAW to another. Thought I'd mention that just in case that wasn't entirely clear. Personally, I can't be bothered as much, as I know that if I would switch DAWs (if I would ever do that again) I would leave older projects behind anyway. The advantage of Live Suite over Standard is that it does give you everything to make music straight out of the box. Of course, you already get all the instruments etc when you buy Bitwig, which doesn't differentiate between versions.
But don't overthink the decision, the differences between Live and Bitwig are pretty much covered in all the answers in this thread, I don't think that at this point you're missing something. You'll be happy with either of them.

One last thing, not sure whether it has come up or not, but are you on Mac or PC? Bitwig doesn't support Mac's AU format for plugins, which was a dealbreaker for me when I demoed it - although, since you still have to start with plugins, it can hardly be an issue for you. Especially since most plugins are available as both VST and AU anyway (just not Drumspillage which I use extensively - and thus made it a dealbreaker for me).

[KoolFartWind]

Between those two my vote'd go for Reaper.

[arca0]

I'm on a PC - been using LMMS for a while and any effects or instruments I have are VSTs, so no real problem with my own library. If I were to choose, I'd rather spend money on plugins/samples/content that I can carry between different DAWs, being locked to Ableton does seem like a drawback.

In the end, I think Bitwig is a better option for me at the moment.

Between those two my vote'd go for Reaper.

I've tested Reaper and decided against it. Its interface was a nightmare for me.

[ThomasHelzle]

Whatever you chose - I hope you will have a lot of fun

Cheers,

Tom

[BDeep]

Excellent! Go ahead and enjoy

[arca0]

I certainly will! Thanks a lot for your help

[deastman]

I've never used Bitwig, although I'm curious to check it out when it matures a bit more. The modular development environment is the most compelling aspect, and that won't be available for a while.

Personally I love Live Suite 9. I have more third party tools that I know what to do with, but I still find myself turning to the built in Ableton plugins all the time. There are so many interesting workflows you can use, between their sampler, drum racks, audio to midi, midi effects, multiple effect chains, etc. It really is a joy to experiment with. Not to mention M4L.

Edit: I also wouldn't go out of my way to avoid using tools provided with my DAW. That's like having one foot in, one foot out. If you're going to commit to a platform, commit to it fully and use every tool at your disposal.

[Robmobius]

Studio 1 V3 and Bitwig are my two DAWS.

Before that I was an avid Ableton (version eight) and Logic user. But honestly you'd be able to do what you want with either of them.

Personally, I just prefer Bitwig's work flow, and it has some nice toys included (some creative ways you can use effects, etc). It's also getting better and better with every iteration.

[Regnas]

What are you waiting for?
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