Getting started in electronic music production (with hard synths)

[saplingmusic]

Hello everyone.

I have recently began producing music in Fl studio. I have been messing around with Harmor. I however am taking the time to learn my music theory. That is probably what I have been studying and practicing the most right now.

I've decided I want to use Hardware synthesizers to produce my music. The kinds of artist I listen to are Moby, M83, Passion Pit, MGMT, etc. I listen to Porter Robinson, Madeon, and some monstercat artist, and other artist as well, but I mostly enjoy the synth sounds from Moby, Passion Pit, M83, etc. I also am getting into some 80's electronic music as well.

However, I am a total beginner. I don't know a whole lot about electronic music. I've been researching about Fl studio and how to make music in there, but I now am starting to research hard synths and producing music with real synthesizers and other instruments.

I have about $450 right now, I can save up too. I tried synth shopping, but I don't know what I'm looking for. I've tried seeing what my favorite artist are using, but I don't want to just use synths that other artist are using just because they use them, if that makes any sense. I've saw Deadmau5 in his video using a Modular Synthesizer on a rack? I read a webpage on beginning modular synthesis and it said it is a really good way to learn synthesis for beginners. But then there are other synths with keyboards? Like the Korg synths and Moog synths. I thought the Korg Volca synth looked good and sounds good, but I don't know what I'm looking for.

I do have a local synth shop, so I can go there to try synths out. Maybe I can ask the owner questions about synthesis and electronic music production.

If there is any advice you could give me, I would appreciate it. Maybe there is a resource that explains what synths to buy for beginners? Or a source on synth vocabulary? I read an interview with Moby talking about producing one of his tracks, but the list of synths he used and samplers and drum machines was just way too much money. Also, can I use FL studio with hardware synths? And do I need a drum machine as well and a sampler?

Sorry for the wall of questions, I am trying to figure this whole world of electronic music out.

Thank you,
Porter

[rod_zero]

In your price range there are a variaety of options,

First the analog Mono synths (one note at a time):

Arturia Micro/Minibrute
Novation Bass station 2 (i would say this is the best in this category features wise)
Moog Werkstatt-01 - Analog Synthesizer Kit
Korg MS-20 Mini Semi-modular Analog Synthesizer
Moog Minitaur Analog Bass Synthesizer
DSI evolver (probably must powerfull analog mono synth under 500, but the Bass station has a keyboard and better interface)

Then you have One polyphonic analog synthetizer

Korg Minilogue - Probably one of the best offerings if you want analog packed with features, but it is sold out everywhere since it is new.

Then you have a bunch of digital synths that are polyphonic:

Roland boutique series: JP08, JU06, JPX3, limited to four voices
Roland System 1, also just 4 voices, but excellent interface and han host Roland on plug ins which model their old analog monosynths
Novation Ultranova (hard to find for 500 but some places have it at that price). (the second must powerfull synth engine under 500)
Novation Mininova (awfull interface for programming it)
Waldorf blofeld (the most powerfull synth engine under 500)
Roland JDxi (1 analog voice and various digital voices)
Microkorg

And then you have the Korg volcas which are small and cheap grooveboxes.

You first have tod ecide if you want a polyphonic or a monophonic synth, then if you want it analog or digital and how "hands" on you want it to be.

I would rank them like this:

1.- Minilogue.- hard to beat in features/price ratio, specially because it has a very good interface, sequencer, arpegiator and even a delay. Best bang for the buck.

2.- Bass station 2.- analog , good user interface, good feature set.

3.- Waldorf blofeld: very powerfull Digital synth

4.- Ultranova: you get a good engine an acceptable user interface 37 keys kb and audio interface.

Check some demos in youtube.

[V0RT3X]

Hello everyone. I have recently began producing music in Fl studio. I have been messing around with Harmor. I however am taking the time to learn my music theory. That is probably what I have been studying and practicing the most right now.

Good, this is one of the foundations of all music and should be learned and practiced on a regular basis. I am learning more too, and have dedicated myself to song writing and learning more theory.

I've decided I want to use Hardware synthesizers to produce my music. The kinds of artist I listen to are Moby, M83, Passion Pit, MGMT, etc. I listen to Porter Robinson, Madeon, and some monstercat artist, and other artist as well, but I mostly enjoy the synth sounds from Moby, Passion Pit, M83, etc. I also am getting into some 80's electronic music as well.

If you're starting out and don't have a lot of money for hardware then STOP and learn on software first. Hardware is nice, it's shiny and fun to show off to your mates, but I think it would be much more practical to spend your money on software, a good midi keyboard and computer first.

You can research lots of what your favorite artists use, and in most cases you will find emulations done in software that will get you close. You also can find sample libraries as well! One thing you should focus on, is developing your production techniques. This is part using your ears, and also learning the foundations behind certain production methods.

However, I am a total beginner. I don't know a whole lot about electronic music. I've been researching about Fl studio and how to make music in there, but I now am starting to research hard synths and producing music with real synthesizers and other instruments.

A synthesizer is a synthesizer. Software synthesis works on the same principles as a hardware version, so what you learn on a software synthesizer can be applied on a hardware and vice versa. The obvious catch is price and in many argued circles "Sound" when it comes down to analog synthesis.

Sure there are plenty of people who will say their $3000.00 Analog synthesizer or effect cannot be replicated in software, but honestly don't get caught up in that. That stupid argument will last forever, and in this day and age who cares if you used a virtual moog or a real one. Only the die hard synth nerds will care, and they are a tough bunch to please. Remember all those famous people didn't get famous because they used a hardware synthesizer..

Again focus on sounding good with what you can in software land before you make the move to hardware. Learn the basics of sound design and production, start with the basic synthesis types and then work your way up to the more complex ones.

I have about $450 right now, I can save up too. I tried synth shopping, but I don't know what I'm looking for. I've tried seeing what my favorite artist are using, but I don't want to just use synths that other artist are using just because they use them, if that makes any sense. I've saw Deadmau5 in his video using a Modular Synthesizer on a rack? I read a webpage on beginning modular synthesis and it said it is a really good way to learn synthesis for beginners. But then there are other synths with keyboards? Like the Korg synths and Moog synths. I thought the Korg Volca synth looked good and sounds good, but I don't know what I'm looking for.

Working with modular-style synthesis can be actually quite complex for some. However if you really want to mess about with a good modular-style synthesizer system I would recommend you check out U-he A.c.e. It can teach you a lot about Analog style semi-modular synthesis!

http://www.u-he.com/cms/ace

Once you have ACE nailed, then maybe move on to something like Bazille for FM synthesis and Phase Distortion sounds.
http://www.u-he.com/cms/bazille

Bazille is quite a bit more complex, and FM and Phase Distortion synthesis should probably be tackled only after you are familiar with how A.c.e works. Yup I'm recommending U-he again and again, because they are excellent value for money and they sound great.

Other software companies that sound great and offer quality products that I highly recommend.

- Xfer Software https://xferrecords.com/

Serum from Xfer Records is an incredible synthesizer to learn Wavetable synthesis on!

I do have a local synth shop, so I can go there to try synths out. Maybe I can ask the owner questions about synthesis and electronic music production.

One word of advice. Do NOT ask music store guys for advice on what to buy or use, because as sales people they will tell you to buy lots of shit. In many cases I have had sales guys talk about stuff they have no f**king clue about, just to try and sell me something.

If there is any advice you could give me, I would appreciate it. Maybe there is a resource that explains what synths to buy for beginners? Or a source on synth vocabulary? I read an interview with Moby talking about producing one of his tracks, but the list of synths he used and samplers and drum machines was just way too much money. Also, can I use FL studio with hardware synths? And do I need a drum machine as well and a sampler?

Instead of buying a drum machine, i would recommend checking out sample libraries for drum Machines instead. I imagine FL Studio has a sampler that will let you load them. One of my favourite sources for sampled drum machine libraries is http://www.goldbaby.co.nz/ Seriously check them out!

For Polyphonic Analog synthesis emulations, I would recommend U-he Diva since it emulates many different classics that Moby is known to like.

Diva is pretty CPU Hungry so make sure you are running a multi-core system such as a i5 or i7!

http://www.u-he.com/cms/diva

Sorry for the wall of questions, I am trying to figure this whole world of electronic music out.

Thank you,
Porter

Np this is a huge journey to start on. You won't know if you don't ask right?

BTW If you don't want to spend a bunch of money on the plugins above i recommend and feel brave, then I recommend you check out Reaktor 6. It will give you a TON of stuff to work with and is arguably the best value for your money on the plugin market.

It's not really for the faint of heart though and is probably not the best place for a beginner to start.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... reaktor-6/

[DJ Warmonger]

I've saw Deadmau5 in his video using a Modular Synthesizer on a rack? I read a webpage on beginning modular synthesis and it said it is a really good way to learn synthesis for beginners.

Nonsense. Modular (Eurorack) is for bored people who have too much money and don't know what to do with it. It's the least efficient way of doing music.

In fact the best way to learn synthesis is to grab simple but full-featured subtractive synth (or plugin) and check some tutorials as well as books.

If you insist on hardware, there's new Korg Minilogue gear which covers all conventional functions with polyphony and is also affordable (500$ / 600E iirc)
You can also get something cheaper and simpler, but the actual thing you pay for are knobs. The less knobs, the more difficult to learn actual process. Avoid hidden menus and under-the-hood options for now.

[nineofkings]

People here are going to be biased towards software, given the nature of this forum. But there's nothing saying you have to learn on software before moving to hardware; that's just what some do because software synths are generally less expensive. But the workflow really is totally different. So if you want to start learning synthesis with the immediacy that hardware with lots of knobs can give you, by all means go for it. You already have an incredibly capable soft synth in Harmor anyway.

Make sure you have an audio interface to record your synth with, too! Alternatively, some synths have USB outs that can be used for audio. You'll have to do some research when you find a synth you like.

[V0RT3X]

I've saw Deadmau5 in his video using a Modular Synthesizer on a rack? I read a webpage on beginning modular synthesis and it said it is a really good way to learn synthesis for beginners.

Nonsense. Modular (Eurorack) is for bored people who have too much money and don't know what to do with it. It's the least efficient way of doing music.

In fact the best way to learn synthesis is to grab simple but full-featured subtractive synth (or plugin) and check some tutorials as well as books.

If you insist on hardware, there's new Korg Minilogue gear which covers all conventional functions with polyphony and is also affordable (500$ / 600E iirc)
You can also get something cheaper and simpler, but the actual thing you pay for are knobs. The less knobs, the more difficult to learn actual process. Avoid hidden menus and under-the-hood options for now.

There is so much wrong with what you just said.

Modular is NOT for bored people with too much money, it's for people who want to use modular synthesis. Perhaps you just don't know what makes a modular so useful..? I could go on and on how useful a modular synthesizer is, but I imagine it would be lost on you if that's your attitude in regards to this stuff.

Also You don't pay for the knobs

You pay for the functions, and the quality of the components that make up these functions. Maybe that's what you meant to say?

[V0RT3X]

If you buy a synthesizer, then go polyphonic first. You will get more for your money in the long run, and making tracks with a Monophonic voice is a lesson in patience. The downside is that you will have to dish out a bit more money for those extra voice, but here's why it's expensive.


So A basic monophonic (1 voice) Subtractive synthesizer design like the mini moog requires the following things to function and produce it's sound.

Here's a minimoog which is a classic monosynth design.


Everything you see on the controls is needed to make that ONE voice work.

Controller section - This is the where the CV functions from the keyboard are sent. It also has a option to add Modulation from 2 sources (OSC3 or Noise)

Three VCOs (VCO - Voltage Controlled Oscillator) : These make the tones and pitches you hear and control with your keyboard. The more VCOs generally means you get a phatter sound. Each Oscillator has it's own tuning knob, which you can tune individually. You can even tune these to make 3 note chords when you press a key. There is a switch called OSC 3 Control which basically tells the oscillator to follow the keyboard pitch changes or to not follow them. Each Oscillator has a selection of 6 wave forms which all generate different tones as well.

1 Mixer for the VCO section : This lets you mix the individual VCO volumes and it will produce a signal sum of all the outputs. So if each VCO has it's own wave shape going in then they ultimately get combined into one waveshape after being mixed in the mixer. It also has a External input which lets you run external devices such as a electric guitar through the filter and amplifier and so forth. The Noise Volume is here as well.

1 Noise source : This is part of the Mixer section and it lets you choose between White or pink noise for sound design uses.

1 Filter Section with a single 24Db LPF (Low Pass Filter) : The Filter is the most important part, and is used to subtract frequencies based on it's design (Hence the name Subtractive synthesis). In a LPF it will start to remove or dull the highest frequencies as you move the knob Anti-clockwise until you have no sound. In a HPF (High Pass Filter) it starts at the Lowest frequencies and begins to subtract the lowest frequencies until you only have the highest frequencies left in the sound. A Band Pass filter is a mixture of a LPF and a HPF. The resonance or Emphasis knob affects the volume of the peak on the filter slope and when pushed hard enough will produce self-resonance depending on the design.

1 ENV section just below the Filter : An Envelope shaper for a filter is used to control how the filter behaves when you press a key. In this design you only get an Attack, Decay, Sustain knob. This affects the settings of the "Amount of Countour" knob which you will set. If you have your LPF Cutoff knob completely muted so no frequencies are heard, then crank up the contour level and now you can adjust the ENV to control the Cutoff. Now turn the Attack time up it will adjust the cutoff filter by returning the frequencies in a slow sweeping movement. You can read more on how to use the other knobs on an article about Envelope generators.


1 ENV Section for the Amp (In Modifiers) : Every electronic instrument needs an amplifier to amplify the signals generated. The Envelope affects the loudness behavior of the signal, this works pretty much the same as the filter one, except this Envelope is controlling the volume. Without an Envelope for the Amp you would just get a constant buzzing sound from the Oscillators.

1 AMP or Output Section : This usually just consists of your volume knob, but on the Minimoog it also has a headphone output, a A-440 switch which generates a A-440 sine signal which you can use to help tune your instrument and a main output switch.

OK so this is a entire basic synthesizer design, so in order to make this polyphonic so we can play chords, you now need to copy Each of the listed modules by the number of voices you want.


So a 4 voice design would need something like this

12 vcos (3vcos x 4)
4 Mixer sections
4 Filters
4 Filter Envelopes
4 Amp Envelopes
etc etc

Then you need to have 1 voice be the master voice and the others be the slave voices meaning they will follow any changes done to Voice 1. This prevents you having to go and individually program voice by voice. SO this is basically how most polyphonic keyboards work.

A modular 4 voice minimoog style system would let you have ultimate control over EACH module in EACH voice. So it can get pretty complex and it also will let you add your own modules by mixing and matching them as you see fit. Also most Modular designs have cable patching which lets you route the signal to whatever you want, where as in most conventional designs the signal flow is fixed meaning you can't change it.

For some people they can get lost in sound design on a modular, but they can still be super practical and extremely useful. A modular does not have to be super expensive either, as you can buy the parts one module at a time. Lots of people start out with an empty case and then as each month goes by they buy a new module until they have a full case.

One note about Modular synthesis. Most Modular eurorack systems are monophonic, and if you want a polyphonic modular you are going to need LOTS as i talked about earlier. If you are interested in the modular world but don't want to spend the money, then check out Reaktor 6 blocks. It's great fun and can teach you a lot about synthesis.

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/pr ... reaktor-6/

Some sound demos.
http://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansi ... -test.html

I seen someone recommend the Korg Minilogue, and it's probably a great starting place, but remember when it comes down to circuit design you get what you pay for. Most "affordable" polysynthesizers on the market use small mass produced (Made in China) components to remain affordable. The more expensive ones are usually hand built by the designer and this can go into astronomical pricing territory.

Here is a example of an extremely expensive handbuilt polyphonic. http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2014/03/ ... ners-view/



One thing you might see crop up is how people covet the "warmth" of older vintage synthesizers and this is mainly because of aging components. I've seen lots of people complain about how "clean" the sound of a new MS-20 Mini sounds in comparison to the vintage version. Well this is partly due to the aging of the circuits and it also is based on the designs. Lots of modern analog stuff benefits from modern technology (Computers, small robotic assembly systems etc) to assist in building and design, where as the older stuff was often built by hand using papers for schematics.

So if you want a really warm sounding analog, you might want to check out some of the older Polys on Ebay, but again make sure you are careful as many people won't offer a return policy on vintage stuff. You might just end up with a busted synthesizer because they moved it..

I should also point out that vintage equipment can be incredibly unstable, and can go out of tune due to temperature changes or bumps etc. And like any old piece of gear if you need a part, you might have to pay a premium to get it fixed. So going with new stuff is cheaper, more reliable if you bust it etc

Still it is nice to have a few old unstable warm machines sitting around for experimentation.

As for my opinion on the Minilogue, it sounds nice for some things but if you want something much more Lush i would recommend saving up your dough for something like this instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQAxCmz7XLE

Price here is $1699.00
https://www.jrrshop.com/keyboards-midi/ ... nalog-keys

You can get an open box price here $1549.00
https://www.jrrshop.com/elektron-analog-keys-open-box

You generally can't go wrong with Elektron Gear IMO. The Analog Keys is modern in design but can nail some really nice vintage tones.

You can hear some more nice audio demos here.
http://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansi ... -test.html

If you want a decent Drum machine later, then go for the Elektron RYTM
http://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansi ... -test.html

[DodgingRain]

If you're starting out and don't have a lot of money for hardware then STOP and learn on software first. Hardware is nice, it's shiny and fun to show off to your mates, but I think it would be much more practical to spend your money on software, a good midi keyboard and computer first.

+1.

Get a decent controller if you don't already have one. Modular synths are terrible for beginners. They are a specialized tool which MIGHT get you a little better sound quality over software. Their biggest advantage is really just a different work flow and a tactile interface that some people find more inspiring. Mostly they are just the current fad in synthesis.

What you need as a beginner are tools that let you get ideas down and create music. You don't want tools that are very limiting like a modular or even a minilogue which is only 4 voice. You're better off with software until you know what your doing and have an idea of what music you are going to make.

[DJ Warmonger]

perhaps you just don't know what makes a modular so useful..?

Several thousand euro/dolars, I'd say. The guy said he has 400 to spend.

The internet is full of people spending time in front of large Eurorack walls making unarticulated blips that rarely resemble music. While theoretically it offers some possibilities, the reality is different. Certinly not for starters.

Also You don't pay for the knobs

I meant that a synth with dedicated controls for all functions will be much more expensive than two-button box with lots of hidden menus. Hands-on control is important for beginner.

[e@rs]

The internet is full of people spending time in front of large Eurorack walls making unarticulated blips that rarely resemble music.

Noticed that too.

[BertKoor]

I'd say you only need to buy:
* a midi keyboard / controller
* a host (you already have FLStudio I understand)
* an audio interface with ASIO drivers and headphone socket (for guaranteed low latency = time inbetween you hit the key and sound comes out of the PC)

Don't spend a dime on more software YET for the first year or so. There's so many good free VSTi's available, you can spend a lifetime playing around and learning what you like with freeware alone. Most synths all apply the same principles: oscillators, filter, envelope generator... Synth1 (available for free) can do the same sounds as any hardware synth you'd buy for your budget.

While still learning the ropes, free stuff will get you around. Take small steps, not giant leaps. You need to walk first before you can run.

[whyterabbyt]

The internet is full of people spending time in front of large Eurorack walls making unarticulated blips that rarely resemble music.

I believe the kids call it 'Trance' or 'EDM'.

[e@rs]

^You're so wroooong! In Trance and EDM you hear Sylenth1, not modulars.

[whyterabbyt]

^You're so wroooong! In Trance and EDM you hear Sylenth1, not modulars.

What, for the unarticulated blips? I'll take your word for it.

[e@rs]

Are there any unarticulated blips in Trance and EDM?