LennarDigital

alexmshore · Post by **alexmshore** » Fri May 09, 2014 8:05 pm

Anything but a dongle please!

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat May 10, 2014 7:09 am

Ruben(LD) wrote:Wow!

Thanks for all replies, I'm happy to see Sylenth1 is still so vivid

We just might contact Urs about their ways of protecting software...we want to state that it's really unmotivating to see so many google hits on downloading Sylenth1, or torrent files that have been downloaded thousands of times each...and that has indeed been a reason for slowing down the programming of the 64 bit.
We all know we might be too late for many users, but we're in a hurry to comply to all customers who did buy Sylenth1 in the last few years.

We also like to state that the 64 bit update will be free to all licenced users, even though programming it is like creating a whole different program.

Seriously, after all the wait for Mac 64 bit you are considering changing the copy protection to a dongle? Are you f**king trolling us?

Personally, if money is the reason behind all the delays I'd sooner pay than have a dongled version.

Please throw me a bone and let me know if you're gonna change so I can sell the license now.

andrew71 · Post by **andrew71** » Sat May 10, 2014 8:01 am

I already use eLicenser with Cubase/Refx/Arturia plugins, so I guess I'd be okay with that. If you have to go with a dongle, is it possible to allow both, like Xils-lab do? I know that with eLicenser it's also possible to have a single computer authorised rather than have a physical dongle.

godly · Post by **godly** » Sat May 10, 2014 8:03 am

I don't think you will ever find a good way to have the best of both worlds, protected licenses and ease of use. If even Adobe cannot find a solid way to protect their licenses!

I think it's better to focus on your product:

Sell it at a reasonable price (for example, Reaper, a jewel of a program, costs only 50€, so you don't have to consider go checking for a crack. And even if you use the free version for long time, you feel ashamed you didn't pay for this gem earlier)
A plugin that is made by the community and adds some most wanted feature requests on a regular bases.
A a good aftersales system that updates the plugin easily and regularly or gets the community to the goodies, only banks (updated or downloaded automaticly?), so reward your loyal customers.

I know how much work and devotion there is in such a programming. But selling it at high prices (I think 150 is high, even dough it's worth every penny), will only get your further from your goals. See the story between Quark and Indesign. Quark sold their Xpress at unreasonable prices, with a dongle. It was horror and it costed the company's life. They tried to come back afters years of ignoring the public demands, but at that time Indesign 2 was even 10x better al a 10th of price. Now that Adobe has got the market in hands, they ask the price they want, but still in a smart way (subscribtion system even now)

So I think you have to focus on lower price and better community. See how Google does it with the apps. Apps for 1-3€ are sold by millions. So lower prices don't mean lower incomes

Let's face it, due to the hack market, your product gets so popular. So if there are thousands downloading, there's a big amount of that group that will buy also. Others will be making publicity, plus the many presets , youtubes, tutorials, made by the (illegal) market.
At some moments, I even think Adobe deliberately release some versions for the illegal market, so the product gets more popular

Ameyah Audio · Post by **Ameyah Audio** » Sat May 10, 2014 11:08 am

im fine with the current system, maybe change some variables that the old keygen isnt working anymore and crackers have to investigate again!

also the idea of limiting it to 1 computer isnt fine, im working on a notebook (sound designing when im going home by train and also in the university sometimes, when being stressed by studying) and then i have here a desktop, i would like to use both w/o paying extra.

maybe consider a better stronger protection scheme, something which isnt to easy to reverse? like RSA2048 combined with Blowfish and MD5? when you build it clever it can be a really hard challenge and takes ages to reverse.

but im sure it pretty good for the market when its cracked? or arent you sure about that? i mean it helped Sylenth1 to get popular in the past and also made it possible to test longer and then finally to pay for it (i did it the same way - i made 2 free soundsets with it, before i decided to buy it - w/o using my Student status

)

and im really not to keen to start with a stupid dongle, im fully against it - i rather invest then in an other synth.

Ruben(LD) · Post by **Ruben(LD)** » Sat May 10, 2014 11:45 am

samsam wrote:
Ruben(LD) wrote:...
Seriously, after all the wait for Mac 64 bit you are considering changing the copy protection to a dongle? Are you f**king trolling us?

Personally, if money is the reason behind all the delays I'd sooner pay than have a dongled version.

Please throw me a bone and let me know if you're gonna change so I can sell the license now.

We're considering changing the copy protection...

That's it

We might change some things to ensure our hard work will be protected a bit longer from hackgroups. As you can read in this topic, the replies aren't really in favor of the dongles, so why even look into that possibility from now on? We just wanted to know the general opinion about these protections and discuss it...I can't remember mentioning aksing for your input and doing the opposite just to annoy everyone.

Lennard has never been openly pissed about the illegal versions on internet because it's also a compliment when so many people want to try/use it. But it isn't fair to the users who pay $200 for their license and see everyone get away with an illegal copy. So that's why we are obliged to them to make the software better protected.

As for all the delays, the 64-bit software will be a free update (of course), but it's pretty unmotivating for Lennard to get hatemails and harsh post on forums like yours. We all know it takes too long, we really don't need to hear this everyday.

Ruben

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:11 pm

Ruben(LD) wrote:
samsam wrote:
Ruben(LD) wrote:...
Seriously, after all the wait for Mac 64 bit you are considering changing the copy protection to a dongle? Are you f**king trolling us?

Personally, if money is the reason behind all the delays I'd sooner pay than have a dongled version.

Please throw me a bone and let me know if you're gonna change so I can sell the license now.

We're considering changing the copy protection...

That's it

We might change some things to ensure our hard work will be protected a bit longer from hackgroups. As you can read in this topic, the replies aren't really in favor of the dongles, so why even look into that possibility from now on? We just wanted to know the general opinion about these protections and discuss it...I can't remember mentioning aksing for your input and doing the opposite just to annoy everyone.

Lennard has never been openly pissed about the illegal versions on internet because it's also a compliment when so many people want to try/use it. But it isn't fair to the users who pay $200 for their license and see everyone get away with an illegal copy. So that's why we are obliged to them to make the software better protected.

As for all the delays, the 64-bit software will be a free update (of course), but it's pretty unmotivating for Lennard to get hatemails and harsh post on forums like yours. We all know it takes too long, we really don't need to hear this everyday.

Ruben

Apologies for the ranting nature of my post.

In my defence I'm certainly not a writer of hatemails, nor one of the baying masses on KVR hounding Lennard over updates. As somebody who paid for his copy of Sylenth I'm very much on your side with respect to the freeloaders, it just hit me as super disappointing that finally when LD forum shows signs of life it's to put forward the possibility of dongles, is all. As I said, charge a fee for the Mac 64 bit and I'll pay it, I'd be happy to contribute to the longevity of Sylenth.

Again, if my posts adds to the demotivation then feel free to delete it. No harm, no foul.

Cheers

Ruben(LD) · Post by **Ruben(LD)** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:24 pm

No problem, I understand the dissapointment...

To me, it seems like the first five possibilities in the poll aren't really an option to us anymore because it would be unfair to the licensed users.

godly · Post by **godly** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:53 pm

Ruben(LD) wrote:No problem, I understand the dissapointment...

To me, it seems like the first five possibilities in the poll aren't really an option to us anymore because it would be unfair to the licensed users.

Ruben, what about my advice? To be considered or pointless?
I think you guys are in an innovative market segment with your product. Young dance musicians.
Be smart and not afraid to look new ways.
In contrairy, looking in a box will get you out of the game.

And don't worry about what people payed, that was then. Improve and offer and strengthen your community and product.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat May 10, 2014 12:56 pm

Ruben(LD) wrote:No problem, I understand the dissapointment...

To me, it seems like the first five possibilities in the poll aren't really an option to us anymore because it would be unfair to the licensed users.

Thanx for the positive attitude

And on the subject of Lennard not coding for nothing, you are right, it would make perfect sense to implement _some_ form of 'better' C/P right before the Mac 64 bit were released. If Urs's system really does work and he'd work with LD on this, then his system would be a great solution.

pinkpanther · Post by **pinkpanther** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:05 pm

Ruben(LD) wrote: Lennard has never been openly pissed about the illegal versions on internet because it's also a compliment when so many people want to try/use it. But it isn't fair to the users who pay $200 for their license and see everyone get away with an illegal copy. So that's why we are obliged to them to make the software better protected.

Total FAIL. It's gonna be pirated anyways and your customers will get additional hassles. Everyone loses.

Ghostwave · Post by **Ghostwave** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:10 pm

pinkpanther wrote:Total FAIL. It's gonna be pirated anyways and your customers will get additional hassles. Everyone loses.

No, just have a look at u-he. But you're Grumpy #1 around here anyway ...

godly · Post by **godly** » Sat May 10, 2014 3:45 pm

pinkpanther wrote:
Ruben(LD) wrote: Lennard has never been openly pissed about the illegal versions on internet because it's also a compliment when so many people want to try/use it. But it isn't fair to the users who pay $200 for their license and see everyone get away with an illegal copy. So that's why we are obliged to them to make the software better protected.
Total FAIL. It's gonna be pirated anyways and your customers will get additional hassles. Everyone loses.

Indeed,I bought a venom hardware synth for 150 so 200 for a software is totality overpriced. Markets are changing.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat May 10, 2014 3:53 pm

The Reaper business model might work for Reaper, i highly doubt it'd also work for Sylenth... you know the kids who use a cracked Sylenth will basically give a f*** about the nag screen telling them kindly to pay for it. Reaper user base is very special, it often reminds me off the open source Linux community. This is entirely different. Keep in mind that, by cutting the price in 1/3, you'd also need to sell 3 or 4 times as many copies. Illusionary, if additionally, you make such a non-restrictive trial version.

Oh, and i wouldn't give a flying damn on pinkpanther's posts. His posts are best taken with a pinch of "haters gone hate".

Or rather trolls gonna troll.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Sat May 10, 2014 6:25 pm

I drifted away from all protection beside Serial, Keyfiles and dedicated downloads like Alchemy (of course whatever I already own stays with me such as Xils and NI etc. but no more...)

I was surprised by Rob Papen moving away from Serial with Blue II. In fact I will no longer upgrade the rest of their (Great) products, beside Blue, which I purchased the upgrade without being aware of the switch.

U-he is definitely the way to go and so Synthmaster or Alchemy.
All incredible popular synth like Sylenth!

We do care for your business (I own a business too) and I hope you'll find a close to perfect solution for it.

Regards

LennarDigital

KVR Audio

License protection

What security to use on the 64-bit?