4 part voice leading. Relevant to electronic music?

[herodotus]

4 part voice leading, like species counterpoint, is a very specific practice that has come to have a more general import in music theory.

I like to think of it in the same way that one martial arts teacher I knew talked about doing ancient forms and weapons drills that seem completely impractical today (who walks around carrying nun-chucks or rattan sticks?). He said the point of doing these drills was 'attribute development': doing double stick drills develops a great sense of basic body mechanics, working with nun-chucks develops hand to eye coordination and so on.

Similarly, doing 4 part vocal exercises will develop skills that will make doing any kind of arranging easier and more rewarding. Of course, if you ever want to do a choral arrangement, of just something that sort of sounds like a choral arrangement, say for a soundtrack someone has asked for, you will be much better off. But even if nothing like that ever happens, the attributes that doing the exercises will develop are far from useless.

[Musical Gym]

Does anyone have any links to free/public domain midi files that showcase some of the methods being discussed?
I'm especially interested in vocal harmonies and how they're constructed, e.g., gospel, Beach Boys (Pet Sounds), Lettermen, Four Freshman, barbershop, etc., etc.

[dewgong]

I think there are actually two different ways voice leading can defined. In jazz someone like Bill Evans would create chord sequences where the movement was entirely liquid and he preserved the integrity of each melodic line.

In Bach this is more complex but he still thought (we think) in terms of the dominant tonic Major Minor hierarchy we have today.

So to implement the former in electornic music I would voice my pad chords using the method above. If you stick to four notes per chord and move by step each note will automatically have a melodic direction and you could theoretically subtract any number of voices and still have a musical line

In the latter case you might want to think about arpeggio lines or having different leads playing independent lines. This is more counterpoint but there is still a harmonic structure dictating your choices. You can of course combine the above approaches. I've attempted it quite a few times and as long as its pulled off subtly it sounds brilliant.

I havent studied species counterpoint or chorale writing in a while but i've produced counterpoint with no problems by following a few simple rules

Movement by 6ths is good
Keep your voices moving melodically
No big jumps
If you want to use a 7th or a 9th try and have it already sounding and hold it over
Tritones are best as passing tones i.e. F C to F A could be accomplished by holding the f while c descends to a v

[dewgong]

Does anyone have any links to free/public domain midi files that showcase some of the methods being discussed?
I'm especially interested in vocal harmonies and how they're constructed, e.g., gospel, Beach Boys (Pet Sounds), Lettermen, Four Freshman, barbershop, etc., etc.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site: ... Yyt7gbF3AE

Look at some of bach's inventions and the canons. The inventions are brilliant because they only have 2 voices.

It might be helpful to study jazz harmony because many of the chords and progressions encountered in electronic music appear in jazz. Classical counterpoint pretty much became voice leading in jazz (there are no true fugues in jazz style that i've ever heard... i'd love to hear one if anyone has located an example though)

[Musical Gym]

Does anyone have any links to free/public domain midi files that showcase some of the methods being discussed?
I'm especially interested in vocal harmonies and how they're constructed, e.g., gospel, Beach Boys (Pet Sounds), Lettermen, Four Freshman, barbershop, etc., etc.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site: ... Yyt7gbF3AE

Look at some of bach's inventions and the canons. The inventions are brilliant because they only have 2 voices.

thanks

[Touch The Universe]

Does anyone have any links to free/public domain midi files that showcase some of the methods being discussed?
I'm especially interested in vocal harmonies and how they're constructed, e.g., gospel, Beach Boys (Pet Sounds), Lettermen, Four Freshman, barbershop, etc., etc.

I found these pretty helpful in my quest to learning more about voice leading. They are a short series about 5 minutes each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZiykyE9NZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06gKjfQkHpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdWKuFhPC0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kS83UzyaR0

[Musical Gym]

@Tjgoa: Thanks very much, will check them out.

[Touch The Universe]

jancivil is clearly the expert here, but I think that the lead line (usually the highest voice) is the one that is written first, and then everything else is written to support that line. it's not writing four independent lines, but rather, writing one line with three other lines that work together that make that one line sound the best it can. i think (again deferring to jancivil for confirmation) that it's not necessarily that different from harmonizing a melody with chords, except the four voice writer is more attentive to the movement among the voices underneath than in conventional chord writing.

Right now I'm only doing Primary Triads in Root Movements but found that usually the root position (bass clef) is the one that tells most about the chord, namely what key it is in. The root is always doubled so basically that leaves two more notes to fill in. When there the root is a fourth or fifth apart you should keep the common tone, preferably within the same clef, so that leaves even one more note less to write. These examples however are from exercises where only the bass note is given and I'd have to fill in the remaining clefs keeping in mind what the next bass note is for smoother part writing (you don't want too many ledger lines if possible and notes must be within an octave of each other unless in the bass and tenor which is two octaves apart). So once you have the bass note and proceed to the next one the possible number or ways to write the chord decreases quite fast, especially since one of the goals is to write as stepwise as possible (meaning to pick the closest tone from the chord previous.

This is all new to me so apologies if it is still confusing or even has errors.

[Touch The Universe]

About my previous post the doubling of the root only has to do with part writing in primary triads only mostly, one could also double other keys but usually stay away from the leading tone.

I also have another question or rather a concept that maybe someone can help clarify about cadences. It's this phrase found in my textbook.

A cadence does not occur every time one of the progressions described above is encountered. For a listener to perceive a cadence, the music must create a feeling of repose. Such a feeling is frequently achieved by a coincidental relaxation of harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic motion.

I'm particularily interested in the half cadences, the I,ii, IV, vi to V, which can be used as a comma or more specifically to transfer between different musical phrases. Sometime I'm stuck a little blending different 'phrases' of melodies together and would like to use this to bridge them together without such an abrupt change of melody. So looking at the above sentences from the textbook how would I create this feeling of repose melodically, harmonically, or rhythmically. In particular what is the major difference between melodically and harmonically. Is this the same concept as the vertical or horizontal aspects which if it is, I could use a little more clarification again cause I'm confused on how to actually implement it in a track. Thanks in advance

[herodotus]

I'm particularily interested in the half cadences, the I,ii, IV, vi to V, which can be used as a comma or more specifically to transfer between different musical phrases. Sometime I'm stuck a little blending different 'phrases' of melodies together and would like to use this to bridge them together without such an abrupt change of melody. So looking at the above sentences from the textbook how would I create this feeling of repose melodically, harmonically, or rhythmically. In particular what is the major difference between melodically and harmonically. Is this the same concept as the vertical or horizontal aspects which if it is, I could use a little more clarification again cause I'm confused on how to actually implement it in a track. Thanks in advance

I think that it's really important to understand that the harmonic sensibility that is embodied in the traditional cadences and half cadences and Neapolitan sixths and whatnot that you read about in theory texts have almost become rare in modern music of any sort. The I-V or tonic-dominant harmonic relationship, which is really the foundation of western tonality, is quite commonly ignored completely. And it is ignored not just by avant-garde composers but by, say, Nirvana, and the Beatles, and Black Sabbath, and Meat Beat Manifesto, and BT, and deadmau5, and Justin Bieber, and by any of an infinite number of other pop musicians who don't seem to understand the supposed theoretical importance of the tonic-dominant relationship.

In other words, the virtue of this kind of study, like the virtue of studying canons and fugues and trio sonatas, is not really its practical usefulness in contemporary music making. Its closer to a singer or a guitarist practicing scales. Singers rarely sing scales to amuse their public, but doing so is of general use in developing and maintaining skills that are used every day.

[Touch The Universe]

Thanks herodotus for your reply. How would you in modern music terms then create a repose between different musical phrases? Maybe sustain a note just before the transition? Slow down or speed up the notes between the two phrases?

[herodotus]

Thanks herodotus for your reply. How would you in modern music terms then create a repose between different musical phrases? Maybe sustain a note just before the transition? Slow down or speed up the notes between the two phrases?

Answering that question in the abstract would be tough, because there are so many different ways of accomplishing this.

It would be better to approach it the opposite way: find a song that seems to have the effect you are trying to achieve and then we can analyze it to determine what is going on.

[jancivil]

I think that the lead line (usually the highest voice) is the one that is written first, and then everything else is written to support that line. it's not writing four independent lines, but rather, writing one line with three other lines that work together that make that one line sound the best it can. I think (again deferring to jancivil for confirmation) that it's not necessarily that different from harmonizing a melody with chords, except the four voice writer is more attentive to the movement among the voices underneath than in conventional chord writing.

In class, we were given a single line, almost always soprano/top or bass/bottom and Roman numerals with a figured bass; and strict 'never dos'.
(Counterpoint courses tend to emphasize 'polyphony' over 'chord' as a modus operandi.) It is not wrong to say you want to give the lead line as much 'relief' or a type of quality support through the writing as you can. However in my estimation there may be more interest taking some liberties with the chord names in favor of writing interesting parts.

My thinking for years has not been 'chord name' at all, although I am about to shift to a new way. (When I wrote from the guitar, which I haven't done for a long time, I thought from chords. I don't have a lot of facility on keyboard to start from chords.) My interest has been more linear.
In my first course the teacher played everybody's work on the piano. This is best, you want to know right away what the effect is for real. I was thinking of ways to get as much color, sonorities I liked, in part writing and I was using the principles for non-chord tones, suspensions and appoggiatura particularly, to get that effect. So I was, because of what I wanted musically, not so much slave to 'chord tone'. I mean I didn't think the thing had to be resolved before the next chord Roman numeral. This teacher was kind of hip and encouraged creativity even in 'first year: diatonic'. So what I'm trying to point to is that historically 'part-writing' comes before 'chord name' (which is why I'm an exponent of figured bass, eg: "I 6/4", it shows your thought both vertically and horizontally) and while the way it's taught of course deals in identifying harmonies by Roman numeral/bass figure, 'part-writing' does not need be dichotomous with 'counterpoint' just through identifying harmony by name first.

The way I create music is from lines; the thing I just made, I did not know (or have any concern for) which was the lead line. Kind of pointing to harmolodics where there is no monarchy/hierarchy. Also consider parts taking up a line from another part, for color.

[jancivil]

doubling
usually stay away from the leading tone.

Doubling the third of the major is not real desirable because it's too 'thick' or opaque and screws with flexibility. Physically the major third can be palpable even in absence, so doubling is 'too much of a good thing' let's say.

difference between melodically and harmonically. Is this the same concept as the vertical or horizontal aspects which if it is, I could use a little more clarification again cause I'm confused on how to actually implement it in a track.

Better, rather than make a dichotomy, to synthesize the thinking. So in a typical 'full' cadence setting up V by I 6/4:

From bass: G G C E to G G C D to G G B D [ultimately back to I, C, of course]; writing parts you have that C in mind, you want that C 'melodically', as harmonically there is a certain desirability of C B C in the line. So for a little more interest I held the C over the 'change of chord', a suspension. Which is 'more interesting' in the line hence more colorful in the harmony. So your interest is two-fold. And it's useful to think of these salient bits as goals or targets.

And as we learn to see, to identify by that figuring of the bass (to the other parts) "6/4", 6 and 4 figure from the bass 'G' (of the 'I' chord) as does the resultant '5/3' to <G in the bass> when we get to V. Both horizontal/line and vertical/harmony are shown.

[dewgong]

Thought it might be worth posting an example of counterpoint in electronic music. This isnt strict counterpoint but there is plenty of voice leading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja0aQfZ-_cM
I'd be very interested in seeing a jazz fugue in strict counterpoint. To the best of my knowledge no such thing exists...