Nuendo vs. REAPER vs. SONAR - DAWBench results.

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Tony Ostinato wrote: so its no suprise that someone who can program so many features into such a small install might also be good at coding for cpu efficiency.

Is Raper even considerably tighter coded than e.g. Sonar? I highly doubt it.

Who can tell?


First both do not have the same number of features, e.g. Sonar has extensive notation features - how much lines of code does that take compared to e.g. the one which is needed to stream audio?

And then it seems many of the program-functions which Reaper acccesses via external plugins are contained directly in the Sonar-executable itself (I'm talking about plugin such as reaper_explorer.dll, reaper_midi.dll, reaper_wave.dll, etc.)

Then Sonar has meanwhile replaced a lot of the generic graphic-functions which Windows itself provides by dedicated graphics-code - I don't know how much difference this makes - oh, and while we're talking about graphics: Reaper's GUI mainly consists of external files as well.


So all in all it's not easy to say if Reaper is more efficiently coded than Sonar - I doubt that even Justin or Cakewalk's programmers themselves could really tell this without looking at the other's code.


Therefor I suggest to lay this topic at rest once and for all. Why not talk about real features, bugs, etc. instead - Reaper has enough to offer in regards to this (if you must ask: yes, both actually :hihi:) - it doesn't need to rely on this ridiculous pseudo-argument.


Just to make sure: this post isn't directed at you personally, Tony. :-)
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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ckatrun411 wrote:To think that you can grab reaper, and be producing the same quality in 3 months of use, after you spent ten years with, Base, or Sonar, or Live, or etc.... is silly.
No, sorry Sir. That's not silly but reality for me. :wink:
ckatrun411 wrote:It a year, to learn the basics of a daw. Or, its a really simple design, and ie, not powerful enough to do what some more advanced users are trying to do.
Reaper might be simple in some ways. But it's powerful in some other ways. And so is e.g. Live.
Maybe you could give some examples for what you're talking about. Maybe I'm not "advanced" enough as a professional audio engineer mixing and mastering other peoples tracks. On the other hand you were talking about the basics. So I don't get what you mean or it's simply wrong. :?: :love:

Shogger

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ckatrun411 wrote:
It a year, to learn the basics of a daw.
speak for yourself (you of all people should know that not everyone has got the same mental capacities like all the others... :hihi:)
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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Re efficiency again..

There are way to many variables to draw any conclusions from it. Jens brings up DLLs, which is one of them. But the fundamental issue is that the processing path, which is what will be your big concern CPU wise is only a small fraction of the over all code.
Take something like file importers/exporters, generally lots of code, very rarely invoked.
Printing functionality? Again, tons of code not in the processing path. Do you care if it's efficient? You'll never know the difference anyway.

Ultimately, very peripheral design decisions can have a big impact on the exe size.

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advaya wrote:
Deric wrote:SONAR users might be hiding under the stairs...
Errrr... most of the Sonar users I know are making music with their host, not dwelling on the results of some pocket-protector number-cruncher's game.
nah dont take offense, us Sonar user's dont have to defend this we are happy with it right? well at least i am, and im used to the way Sonar does things and the layout. alot of stuff is still the same since cakewalk audio9 so i like cakewalk. I do know it won the award this year for best DAW mabey not the fastest but BEST.

and that best award dosent mean squat to a person that is used to the workflow of there existing DAW. if you like your DAW youde be a fool to change, why not instead come up with a hit song.

peace.

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Deric wrote:D.A.W.Bench have just completed some tests comparing Nuendo, REAPER, and SONAR.

Non-REAPER users might be surprised whilst SONAR users might be hiding under the stairs...

http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm
Is this only testing Intel?

Disclaimer,

I like Reaper, in combination with other apps.

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I'm coming off more or less set ways too, having lived in trackers over a decade ago, and editing and mixing for film/tv now on Protools.

The cross-over barrier certainly is a big one, but hey it's like that everywhere. Nuendo scares me, because it's a big black hole without a way to demo it.(AFAIK. Say it ain't so please.)

I'm amazed by this performance monster that Reaper has evolved in to, but I'm still putting it through its paces. Very intuitive I must say, with limits to my needs here and there no doubt. And that's ok, because I don't use Reaper exclusively.

Benchmarks are fine for exposing technical merits of applications, but little else.

And I recommend Reaper to people with a word of caution, in that like every DAW you need to learn it to master its use. In no way is that different from any other DAW.
Will mix for fun

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jens wrote: Is Raper even considerably tighter coded than e.g. Sonar? I highly doubt it.
sorry... but only the best typos get quoted. :lol:

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:lol: and it's not the first time I made it either... :oops:
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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Are there any Sonar users who find this test interesting? If I had invested time and money on Sonar, I personally would start demanding something to be done by Roland/Edirol/Cake/whatisit to have Sonar perform as good as the other DAWs.

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Sasu Honka wrote:Are there any Sonar users who find this test interesting? If I had invested time and money on Sonar, I personally would start demanding something to be done by Roland/Edirol/Cake/whatisit to have Sonar perform as good as the other DAWs.
I've been using Sonar and its predecessors for better than an eighth of a century. It does what I need, and it does it well. The devs are constantly improving its features and its performance.

Can you suggest why I should suffer from hectic conniptions because another app happens to score better at one kind of benchmark at the moment?

[edited to remove redundant repetition]
Last edited by Meffy on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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someone here talks about efficient coding and "size does matter" thing...
check this out: http://kk.kema.at/files/kkrieger-beta.zip
97 kb size, expands to 200+ mb RAM.

on topic: these tests suck. though i now use Reaper as my main DAW, i don't consider it better than something. It simply suits my humble-humble needs, that's it. And that's the whole one thing that really does matter! not these multicore bullshit tests.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.

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I'm a Sonar user, and as someone about to splurge on a new multicore DAW, I'm more than a tad concerned. This guy summed it up well in his post:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1356871


JD

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Seems to me that Jose7822's reply does a good summary of why I'm not "demanding" anything.
Cakewalk is aware of this and are currently looking into it.
It would be both naive and presumptuous of me to think that the Cakewalk devs were oblivious to news about other hosts, multi-core processors, and so forth. Demanding that they do something about it would be like pulling the cashier's sleeve at a store and saying "why don't you do something about the line forming at your register?"

The cashier has eyes, and knows. Fretting isn't going to make things go any faster.

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Sonar user here. I have to confess I really don't 'get' why I should be shocked, hurt, traumatised and in need of counselling because of this test. :D

Mostly because this test has absolutely nothing to do with how I use sonar. :lol:

Maybe the devs will look into it. They're a good and competent bunch when it comes to PC/Win programming and they generally have a good record on that front.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to ring "Claims Direct" and demand compensation against Cakewalk for the horrendous trauma this DAW test has caused me. :hihi:

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