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microsoft announces new tablet

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

KVRist
 
486 posts since 9 Jul, 2008

Postby SadPuppyBlues; Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:44 am

george wrote:Yeah, like Zune did.


Zune wasn't remotely near being able to run Windows.

Once cheap tablets run Windows, Apple is out of the market.
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KVRAF
 
18485 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net
 

Postby aMUSEd; Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:47 am

It's interesting really how MS failed initially to take advantage of this technology and allowed Apple to take the lead. I remember seeing demos of Surface technology years ago at MS headquarters in London while I was there at a 2 day development workshop. This was well before anyone had heard of iOS devices. At the time the technology was already multi touch capable and very responsive but MS was more interested in using it to create SMART environments than tablets - at least that was the focus of the workshop. So I saw things like Surface technology built into a tabletop (a bit like the ones used for Reactable) that could do things like remind someone to take their medication or that they had an appointment and we also discussed applications such as a virtual touch capable corkboard and SMART walls that could guide people around the house (we saw some of this in some videos MS had made).
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KVRAF
 
2371 posts since 17 Jul, 2002
   

Postby George; Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:52 am

I think a Windows x86 Core i5 tablet will be as cheap as the latest Ultrabook or MacBook Air.

Just wait until Microsoft enlighten us with:

1. Battery life.
2. Pricing.
3. Real product availability date.

Battery life is not going to be great, since WiFi is using Mimo 2x2 which uses more power. Basically, don't expect something better than the iPad 3 or the next gen.

By the way, the iPad can run Windows. Any cloud computing or remote desktop works but the productivity is awful. And I won't expect a huge boost even if it's possible to do it locally.
KVRist
 
486 posts since 9 Jul, 2008

Postby SadPuppyBlues; Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:58 am

george wrote:By the way, the iPad can run Windows.


Pff, but what can it run on top of windows?

Once you have a cheap tablet that can really run windows, all of the work Apple poured into iSoftware is finished. They made their money, but the party is going to be over soon.
KVRAF
 
3450 posts since 20 Oct, 2001, from my bolthole in the south pacific

Postby egbert; Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:05 am

The battery life issue is going to be pretty important. If you have full windows in a similar size device to the iPad then you might have a winner for those who want to run what they know provided there are sufficient resources (RAM, CPU) to run those apps well. Trouble is, what if it is so power guzzling that it flattens the battery in 90 minutes. What if the lack of keyboard/mouse makes the apps frustrating to use?

MS has addressed the latter with the cover - pretty smart move. If power efficiency is currently too low for a decent battery life then this generation could fail. Another CPU process shrink or two could bring the power efficiency - but where will ARM etc be by then? Interesting times at Redmond no doubt.

I edited my earlier post to point out that the pro version has display port out and seems to support very large monitors via that means - pretty handy from productivity.

@amused - brings Xerox PARC to mind doesn't it.
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KVRAF
 
2371 posts since 17 Jul, 2002
   

Postby George; Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:17 am

Windows on a cheap 10" or worse yet, 7" tablet without a proper GUI touch based is useless. iOS has been working on it for ages and I doubt the customer base is going to migrate because it runs a software being famous for bugginess, crashes and related nightmares. IE crash on the "beta" presentation? Pathetic. I don't remember the same happening with any iOS keynote.

Maybe there are people buying iPads to stay away from messing things. They just work, you can get them cheap second hand and with this Surface thing Microsoft is giving arguments to make things stay like that for a very long time.

They are trying to make a tablet behave like a PC. As said, save the money for a laptop. I bet most will get touch next year and you could do your work on keyboard and trackpad that's not made of cheap rubber, probably on a decent IPS 1440x900 13 inch screen.
KVRist
 
486 posts since 9 Jul, 2008

Postby SadPuppyBlues; Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:28 am

george wrote:I doubt the customer base is going to migrate because it runs a software being famous for bugginess, crashes and related nightmares.


Right, because crashes and viruses don't exist for apple.
P-L-E-A-S-E.

Most people bought iPads because it's the only thing out.
The windows tablet to crush Apple probably isn't going to be made by Microsoft. I just don't see how Apple can compete when small devices start running Windows 8.
Shy
KVRAF
 
4804 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Postby Shy; Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:33 am

George, many things crash on iPad and iOS is not exceptionally stable. It's true that the Internet Explorer crash is pathetic, but that's unrelated.

"They want a tablet to behave like a PC" is "why, in my day" geezer talk. A tablet is already pretty much a "PC" and will be much more so in a couple of years, and there's no way around it. Continuing to act as if someone is "trying to make it" whatever is BS.

All the speculations about battery life and so on are uninteresting. Why build a huge discussion on speculation? I'd rather wait a little and see actual results.

Personally, I care mostly about using it as a MIDI interface. iPad with Lemur and iConnectMIDI already makes a great solution. I'd rather not pay a damn thing to Apple ever again, though.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
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KVRAF
 
2371 posts since 17 Jul, 2002
   

Postby George; Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:44 am

SadPuppyBlues wrote:Right, because crashes and viruses don't exist for apple.

Because Apple is not famous for that.

George, many things crash on iPad and iOS is not exceptionally stable. It's true that the Internet Explorer crash is pathetic, but that's unrelated.

Depends of your model. iPad 2 has less RAM and it's not the most suitable for iOS 5. Sometimes apps will close due lack of it. Can't wait to see what the iPad 4 will bring next year.

Why build a huge discussion on speculation? I'd rather wait a little and see actual results.

They don't give any specs about that so we are free to speculate in the meanwhile, don't we? :)

Personally, I care mostly about using it as a MIDI interface. iPad with Lemur and iConnectMIDI already makes a great solution. I'd rather not pay a damn thing to Apple ever again, though.

As for myself, TouchOSC is one of finest software apps I have ever found. Using it with Discovery Pro gives a very hardware alike feeling.

I see people happy with the iPad and even the iPhone being used for their everyday music making, and I'm thankful to Apple to let that happen without having to pay a lot of hard earned dollars for a hardware Lemur.
KVRAF
 
3450 posts since 20 Oct, 2001, from my bolthole in the south pacific

Postby egbert; Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:22 am

Shy wrote:All the speculations about battery life and so on are uninteresting. Why build a huge discussion on speculation? I'd rather wait a little and see actual results.

If it is uninteresting, why bother saying that in this thread - FFS haven't you got anything interesting to do? :roll:

This device is in beta and the two versions are three and six months away. That puts the first one out there at the launch of Win 8 and the other one at Christmas time where it will join a market place crowded with everything Acer, Asus, Sony, Samsung and Toshiba etc can do with a similar OS and closely related hardware.

Until then there is only speculation - as to whether this will succeed in the market place, as to whether it will be any use for what KVR users do with computers.
Shy
KVRAF
 
4804 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Postby Shy; Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:48 am

egbert wrote:
Shy wrote:All the speculations about battery life and so on are uninteresting. Why build a huge discussion on speculation? I'd rather wait a little and see actual results.

If it is uninteresting, why bother saying that in this thread - FFS haven't you got anything interesting to do? :roll:

For f**k's Sake yourself. I've shared my thoughts on it but haven't participated in speculation-fests. Don't like it? Tough titty.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
KVRAF
 
3450 posts since 20 Oct, 2001, from my bolthole in the south pacific

Postby egbert; Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:08 am

@Shy

Say you are out somewhere and you walk up to a group of people in conversation. They are talking about a sporting contest to be played the coming weekend. They are speculating on the result - given the players available and their form etc.

You aren't interested in the sporting event or even the sport involved.

Do you:
A) walk up and tell them that you aren't interested in speculation on the results of that (or any) sport(s) events

or

B) mosey along and find another conversation or count the tiles on the floor or whatever floats your boat.

On your past form, I would speculate you answered A.

Do you find speculation about you more interesting?
Shy
KVRAF
 
4804 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Postby Shy; Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:27 am

egbert, I'm not interested in having a stupid discussion with you. Also, I don't like thread-hijacking.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
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KVRAF
 
1722 posts since 27 Feb, 2011
  

Postby Gonga; Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:26 pm

The ARM version will have a locked-down OS like the iPad, so no viruses and probably very few crashes either once it's finished.

The Intel version will be full-on Winders, so it'll be an open OS.

You will have the same interface on any device you want, which is unique and pioneering. You'll be able to move files between devices more easily than ever too, which Apple needs to address for those folks who don't like waiting for iTunes to load for simple file operations with their ipod.

MS doesn't have to kill the iPad, it's an open environment, with every manufacturer in the world creating devices. It's only a matter of time before great devices running Win8 or Win9 hit the market. By then, maybe Apple will also have a single interface including touch for its PCs. Competition is good. Microsoft didn't want to leave the success of its new OS up to HP and Dell, so they did a PC tablet themselves. But this device will not only competitive on price (especially since MS doesn't have to pay itself for the OS or Office), Win8 in particular leaps ahead in multiple ways (one OS to rule all devices, touch everywhere, maintain open hardware OS with backward compatibility, innovative interface showing active icons (which is push tech all over again :hihi: ).

It's a good development for MS, but I worry about the loss of flexibility on monitoring environments. Currently, you can have full-screen, or 70/30 split screen and that's it, with apps needing to be developed with the two window aspects. I hope the Pro version is more flexible. For people using multiple monitors, there are kinks.

What I'm wondering is the extent to which touch screens will obseletize mice. The keyboard isn't going away anytime soon, and complaints about the iPad's "keyboard" are addressed best by this device, but overall the new touchscreens will replace mice for most users methinks. I can't wait to get a touchscreen monitor like Dell's 22", though I'm not planning on switching to Win8 until the bugs are worked out. During this whole "tablet mania" period, most people who do work on their PCs will still be using Macs or PCs running Win7, and that's why I say Win9 will really put MS back in the game. I hope. It's a big gamble they're taking. More power to them.
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KVRian
 
1084 posts since 12 Mar, 2005

Postby polaris20; Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:52 pm

SadPuppyBlues wrote:
george wrote:By the way, the iPad can run Windows.


Pff, but what can it run on top of windows?

Once you have a cheap tablet that can really run windows, all of the work Apple poured into iSoftware is finished. They made their money, but the party is going to be over soon.


Your speculation is amusing, but seeing as how MS has pushed tablets for years with next to zero success, I don't think Windows 8 will make it all that much more revolutionary.

The issue is plain and simple: yes, the x86 version will run regular Windows apps. But their UI will positively suck on a tablet. I don't see how Windows 8 changes that, unless third party devs start coding a separate UI into their apps specifically for tablet use.

Also, it's completely silly to say "iPad is dead" or "Apple is finished". Last time I looked, there's no reason why there can't be more than one device, more than one OS.
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