FR: Make random values (more) repeatable
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
Hi Calle,
Random values are fun but it's often desirable to have a "random" part remain the same on every playback. Would it be possible to add a seed value for the random value generators? I'd suggest that if the seed is zero then the values would be truly random but for a non-zero seed, the values would be determined by the seed value and critically, the host playback position.
A global or program level seed would be an improvement but if the seed could be a group or split level parameter that would be better, as it would allow a greater degree of control.
In an ideal world it would be preferable to be able to set a separate seed value for every random value generator but I'm not sure if that would be possible without adding a lot of UI clutter.
Thanks for reading this. Now I'll just wait for you to tell me that this already exists. I checked the manual first, honest!
Random values are fun but it's often desirable to have a "random" part remain the same on every playback. Would it be possible to add a seed value for the random value generators? I'd suggest that if the seed is zero then the values would be truly random but for a non-zero seed, the values would be determined by the seed value and critically, the host playback position.
A global or program level seed would be an improvement but if the seed could be a group or split level parameter that would be better, as it would allow a greater degree of control.
In an ideal world it would be preferable to be able to set a separate seed value for every random value generator but I'm not sure if that would be possible without adding a lot of UI clutter.
Thanks for reading this. Now I'll just wait for you to tell me that this already exists. I checked the manual first, honest!
Last edited by IXIX on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
Actually, testing with a wave matrix on random and looping the part in REAPER, it seems that the values aren't truly random but repeat a sequence. However the values don't appear to be tied to the play position, so each time I start playback from the top, the output is different.
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
No, the random is in fact a noise function, which is somewhat different from true random behavior. I think to achieve what you want you might try using a step lfo with randomized values set to tempo sync. That way you have a pattern controlled by song position. Plus you can edit it to find what you want.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
That's a good idea but I'm struggling to make it work. I haven't used the step sequencer much so maybe I just don't get it but I can't seem to get it to play back the same sequence of samples on each playback.elcallio wrote:I think to achieve what you want you might try using a step lfo with randomized values set to tempo sync. That way you have a pattern controlled by song position. Plus you can edit it to find what you want.
For a test, I'm feeding 1/4 notes into a matrix with 8 samples arranged along the y axis, modulated by SEQ1. The seq is set to 8 steps, 1/4 rate, continuous, tempo sync, with stepped values, initialised with the sawtooth. Other seq settings are at their defaults.
I'd expect this to trigger the samples in ascending order but it doesn't, it keeps playing the lowest sample. I've tried various other combinations of settings for the seq but nothing seems to get the desired result of playing back the samples in ascending order on playback. Am I missing something?
Now you mention it, I seem to remember you posting something once about implementing true random behaviour sometime in the future. Or did I dream it?elcallio wrote:No, the random is in fact a noise function, which is somewhat different from true random behavior.
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
Did you remember to set the step lfo to "step" instead of "cycle" (next to the "init" button)? In cycle mode, a full cycle will take 1/4 note. In step mode, a single step takes 1/4.
Quick test here works as expected. I.e. a tempo-round-robin.
Quick test here works as expected. I.e. a tempo-round-robin.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
A picture's worth a thousand words they say...elcallio wrote:Did you remember to set the step lfo to "step" instead of "cycle" (next to the "init" button)? In cycle mode, a full cycle will take 1/4 note. In step mode, a single step takes 1/4.
Quick test here works as expected. I.e. a tempo-round-robin.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8876198/Misc/TX01.JPG
With those settings, it just plays the bottom sample eight times.
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
Weird. I assume the group settings are for the group into which the matrix is mapped?
One thing though: is the transport playing? Some DAWs will not give proper time/position info when stopped. That is quite a drag. I've made a continuous LFO:s play as expected even when stopped, but tempo synced ones will not shift their start point unless the transport runs.
One thing though: is the transport playing? Some DAWs will not give proper time/position info when stopped. That is quite a drag. I've made a continuous LFO:s play as expected even when stopped, but tempo synced ones will not shift their start point unless the transport runs.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
Yes.elcallio wrote:Weird. I assume the group settings are for the group into which the matrix is mapped?
Yes. I set up a simple sequence of eight quarter notes (C3) in REAPER. I hit play and it just plays the bottom sample eight times. I'll send you the project.elcallio wrote:One thing though: is the transport playing? Some DAWs will not give proper time/position info when stopped. That is quite a drag. I've made a continuous LFO:s play as expected even when stopped, but tempo synced ones will not shift their start point unless the transport runs.
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
Ok, something weird is going on either with the position/tempo calc or the seq itself. I'll look into it some more and keep you updated.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
Oo! Did I find a real bug this time? Thanks for looking!elcallio wrote:Ok, something weird is going on either with the position/tempo calc or the seq itself. I'll look into it some more and keep you updated.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 231 posts since 7 Feb, 2007
Hi Calle,
Just trying out the latest beta. I saw this...
Just trying out the latest beta. I saw this...
,,,in the changelog. Is this intended to fix this odd behaviour? If so, I'm sorry to report that the odd behaviour persists. My test project still only plays the bottom sample.- Fixed trigger values for LFO/SEQ not correct when used as matrix input
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
No, sorry, your issue is related to sync. The issue mentioned here is related, but not the same. There is still a sync issue I have not had time to fix. But I will. Promise.IXIX wrote:Hi Calle,
Just trying out the latest beta. I saw this...,,,in the changelog. Is this intended to fix this odd behaviour? If so, I'm sorry to report that the odd behaviour persists. My test project still only plays the bottom sample.- Fixed trigger values for LFO/SEQ not correct when used as matrix input
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/
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- KVRAF
- 2400 posts since 27 May, 2005 from Stockholm
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
http://www.tx16wx.com/