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question about the -18 dB level

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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KVRAF
 
10986 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Compyfox; Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:31 am

Keith99 wrote:1. You say dont exceed -9dBFS on transient rich material but then later you say to not exceed -6dBFS on the summing bus. This is the first I had heard of -6dBFS. Do you aim for a max -6 on all buses?


Only on the summing bus, since this is the sum of all signals. I allow myself that particular headroom just for savety purposes.

Of course you can go the oldschool way: 0VU and -9dBFS digital peak maximum. Everything is possible as long as you don't overdo it.



Keith99 wrote:2. I have tried following these guides in Cubase 7 with the new control room meter and I find it incredibly difficult to get RMS up while keeping the peaks contained. I guess this is what mastering engineers get paid to do. Are there any tricks to getting a high RMS and still reduce in the peaks? I know compression does that but I would need to slam sounds to achieve the correct RMS and contain the peaks.


I don't have Cubase 7 yet, still on 6. But go away from thinking that both the RMS level and the peak level needs to be hot all the time.

The 0 VU or -9dBFS digital limits are just guidelines. And in outboard gear days, the usual definite upper end.

You can always pull up the loudness if you want, but while mixing and recording, stay within the limits. This gives you a better fader resolution, analog type plugins respond better, you can easier integrate actual hardware, and you have a more healthy headroom prior to giving your track away for mastering.


Also... if you're not experienced with hot signal levels while recording, you're save of clipping. And someone mentioned "crap ADC/DAC's" - yes, you also benefit from using a reference level, since certain ADC/DAC already start to clip at lower levels than 0dBFS.
KVRian
 
781 posts since 20 Mar, 2010

Postby Giusmex; Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:59 am

ok

but



thise -6dB or -9 dB

how do they relate to the master plugin ?
as izotope ozone 5 ?

or better..

how do they relate to a song that has yet to be sent to a online master engineer for mastering?
KVRian
 
1017 posts since 15 Mar, 2007, from Yorkshire, England
 

Postby Keith99; Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:05 am

Thanks for the reply. I feel I am getting closer , just more practice.....
KVRist
 
415 posts since 15 Jan, 2009

Postby AudioGuy720; Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:07 am

Acrobat wrote:
AudioGuy720 wrote:In the future RECORD at -18 dB RMS levels as well instead of reducing them after the fact. It'll make your recordings sound better, especially if you're using budget gear.


why this sounds so wrong to me? :o


Two references to read:

Short version: http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/in ... Levels.php


Long version: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... tored.html
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KVRian
 
1132 posts since 9 Dec, 2011

Postby billcarroll; Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:14 am

Compyfox wrote:Read: my KVRmarks


OK, so I just read this:

"How your host should be used with emulation plugins (based on Slate VCC)"


I have to say, thanks. You've really done a great job detailing this out. I really appreciate the time and work you put into sharing this knowledge :)
KVRAF
 
10986 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany
 

Postby Compyfox; Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:44 am

Seriously, STOP FOCUSING on Ozone.
We only talk about the plain features of your host, no special plugins whatsoever other than VCC maybe.


Giusmex wrote:how do they relate to a song that has yet to be sent to a online master engineer for mastering?


Simple:
-9dBFS per channel, -6dBFS for the summing bus. It's a personal preference.

The average loudness while recording/mixing should not(!) exceed -18dBFS (RMS) or 0 VU (with a reference level of -18dBFS).



I hope I made myself clear enough this time around.
KVRian
 
1308 posts since 12 Mar, 2007

Postby contrary; Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:12 am

You guys should stop aiding and abetting the OP in his quest to waste bits; He needs to learn how to use every single bit that is available !!



use every Damm bit!! :clown:


.
Financial solvency and KVR Mix as well as oil and water.
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KVRian
 
1071 posts since 6 Nov, 2002, from where moose mate, mate
 

Postby pekadan; Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:06 pm

billcarroll wrote:
Compyfox wrote:Read: my KVRmarks


OK, so I just read this:

"How your host should be used with emulation plugins (based on Slate VCC)"


I have to say, thanks. You've really done a great job detailing this out. I really appreciate the time and work you put into sharing this knowledge :)

+1
User avatar
KVRAF
 
2535 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from Raincoast of Grayland

Postby mandolarian; Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:48 pm

contrary wrote:You guys should stop aiding and abetting the OP in his quest to waste bits; He needs to learn how to use every single bit that is available !!
use every Damm bit!! :clown:

Agreed. We paid for them, we use them all! And the greater travesty is that these bit squandering wanton byte spenders are wasting the MOST significant bits. And then they call it: 'Art'. WTF?

Oh well, someday in the distant future, they'll make DAWs with 32bit floating point math and then we'll get our revenge on these red-adverse weak-level weenies. :hihi:

Oh and BTW, digital makes the best square waves! Analog square waves are way too round.:P
perception: the stuff reality is made of.
KVRian
 
781 posts since 20 Mar, 2010

Postby Giusmex; Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:12 pm

thanx
KVRian
 
781 posts since 20 Mar, 2010

Postby Giusmex; Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm

contrary wrote:You guys should stop aiding and abetting the OP in his quest to waste bits; He needs to learn how to use every single bit that is available !!



use every Damm bit!! :clown:


.



.........
Last edited by Giusmex on Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRian
 
781 posts since 20 Mar, 2010

Postby Giusmex; Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:12 am

ok compyfox, nopw in my song i am using all of your suggestions


this includes:

proper use of VU meter in slate digital vcc
proper use of gain staging



sill it is difficult to me to fine tuning the volume levels of the several tracks in my song taking into account all of these parameters, but i guess it is only a matter of experience :)
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