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mccy
KVRist
 
68 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Postby mccy; Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:18 am please make it possible, to convert rootkey to transpose instead reading rootkey from wavs in prog

or please write the rootkey of the samples somewhere in the txprog file, please!!

That would be so great!!!

My tx2sfz converter is near to version 1.0 and actually I'm converting complex instrumens from sfz to tx16wx and back. With great success. I exchanged the way utf16 is handled and it works extremely reliable - except one thing:

I ran into to the problem, that as long as I stay in tx everything is fine, but when using sfz or sforzando... the program has no rootkey info and sfz player seem to not load rootkey from wavs.

It makes sense to turn off rootkey reading from wav as an option in tx16wx anyway, because when you save a program twice with same samples but different tuning or keyranges (dropping some samples to save ram) you don't have to save all waves with it.

So far it is not possible to turn off saving changes in rootkey of wav! Or is there a way?

Martin
elcallio
KVRian
 
907 posts since 27 May, 2005, from Stockholm

Postby elcallio; Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:52 am

mccy wrote:or please write the rootkey of the samples somewhere in the txprog file, please!!

That would be so great!!!

My tx2sfz converter is near to version 1.0 and actually I'm converting complex instrumens from sfz to tx16wx and back. With great success. I exchanged the way utf16 is handled and it works extremely reliable - except one thing:

I ran into to the problem, that as long as I stay in tx everything is fine, but when using sfz or sforzando... the program has no rootkey info and sfz player seem to not load rootkey from wavs.

It makes sense to turn off rootkey reading from wav as an option in tx16wx anyway, because when you save a program twice with same samples but different tuning or keyranges (dropping some samples to save ram) you don't have to save all waves with it.

So far it is not possible to turn off saving changes in rootkey of wav! Or is there a way?

Martin


Simple answer: No. And your request makes little sense either, if you save the TX program + samples, the root key will be updated in the files. Root key represents the _root_ key. This is invariant, and should never differ between usage of that said wave. _center pitch_ otoh might be subject to change depending on use case, and is in that case a product of root + transpose + tune.
It might be argued that the transpose attribute should be per split instead to make it easier to make wacky sounds, but I doubt its worth the effort.
It can also be argued that the concept of "overriding" root key might be useful, but that is not what you are asking for either.

SFZ spec says that root key for sample mapping shall be the root embedded in file unless overridden in the sfz. If some player does not handle this then that is their problem, not mine.

And in general, asking me for features that makes it easier to _not_ use TX16Wx is probably a waste of time.
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
mccy
KVRist
 
68 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Postby mccy; Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:28 am

And in general, asking me for features that makes it easier to _not_ use TX16Wx is probably a waste of time.


Oh. I feel kind of negative tone in that comment. Maybe that's because of my not so good english. I am far away from being a professional in what I'm building. I allready thought that in a way I must sound like a kid in what I'm writing (and I was wrong concerning the way I interpreted the role of a rootkey) - but that is maybe because I'm fascinated by that world behind the door you opened with Tx16Wx and burning to get the idea of a converter realized.

I thought it was absolutely in your sense to have 3d party developers to convert the format. I thought that Tx16Wx could become THE creation-tool for SFZ programs and being compatible in both directions would spread its popularity! I want to use Tx16Wx and there are features which it is number one sampler on my list (hey, I bought the pro version), but I would even use it more, if being able to get SFZs out of it.

I understand, if you say with proud something like that Tx16Wx is the best sampler and shouldn't be abused as a SFZ building program.
If that is the case, or if what I'm doing is not in your sense, I will immediately stop my public downloads and go on with my project as a personal education adventure what it actually is anyway.

It can also be argued that the concept of "overriding" root key might be useful, but that is not what you are asking for either.

SFZ spec says that root key for sample mapping shall be the root embedded in file unless overridden in the sfz.


Overriding is, what I'm asking for as one possibility. Sorry, if I was not clear at that point. Thanks for your SFZ specs information. As I said, I'm not a pro & this information helps me. It's not possible for me to be fully in the materia I work on in this project.

I want in NO WAY that TX16Wx will be not or less used!!!

Martin
elcallio
KVRian
 
907 posts since 27 May, 2005, from Stockholm

Postby elcallio; Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:17 pm

No, I should apologize. I'm sorry if I came across as overly negative. Of course I do not object (nor have I the right to) to you writing conversion tools, or find some other use for TX16Wx than those I had envisioned. ;-)

My point do still stand though. The TX16Wx is built on a hierachial structure where the content of underlying elements define the result of the upwards aggregate. I.e waves affect the programs mapping them, programs the performance mapping those, etc etc.

I've started thinking seriously about having overriding root keys in splits to make some mappings easier, but that does not help you really. I'm guessing your problem is that you would like to be able to find sample info in the program file, but that is just asking for information that should not be there to magically appear to make your program easier. And trust me, from a software standpoint that is really bad for the long term design.

If your other players cannot find root keys from samples (wav), something is weird with them (which is of course why everyone should just use TX16Wx). The one case that I can think of that is really annoying in this case though is when using sample formats incapable of root info (ogg). This is where overriding roots would perhaps be helpful.
Cheers
/C
TX16Wx Software Sampler:
http://www.tx16wx.com/
mccy
KVRist
 
68 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Postby mccy; Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:40 pm

O.K., that was important for me to know. I really appreciate the fantastic work you put in Tx16Wx (and tx2sfz will be a hommage to it's great interface!)!!! The more I use it, the more I see what a great piece of software it is and so do I trust you, to have built it up the straightest way.

Just because I have to learn, how one can read a bunch of rootkeys from wavheaders and how to get if it's a 16 or 24 bit wav should be no reason for you to include it in the txprog - file. :-) Of course. At the moment I just struggle from deriving a simple basis dir from the load file information - man, I have to learn A LOT!!! But I will get it done. When I have it basically working correct I think I will not work on loops etc. I just want to export a basic working sfz.

For percussion instruments with detuned samples I think it would be more easy to be able to drag a center key on the virtual keyboard which is not stored to the sample, but I bet I get used to doing such things with transpose.

Martin
davidv@plogue
KVRist
 
349 posts since 2 Aug, 2001, from Montreal

Postby davidv@plogue; Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:13 am

mccy wrote:Just because I have to learn, how one can read a bunch of rootkeys from wavheade


For Dimension Pro and sforzando (apparently not sfz.dll), if you want to use the keycenter from the file you should use the following explicitly:

Code: Select all
pitch_keycenter=sample


The rationale being that lots of editors in the past have placed bogus entries in there.
So only the converter needs tweaking.

Cheers
David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
http://www.plogue.com
mccy
KVRist
 
68 posts since 25 Aug, 2006

Postby mccy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:50 am

GREAT!!! Thank you very much! I like sforzando very much!

Moderator: elcallio

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