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KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 4 Oct, 2003
 

Postby MickGael; Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:27 pm

An update:

It seems the "ripping" noise I can generate routinely with my RME latency set at the lowest (32 samples) is connected to the number of voices. I went through the first batch of presets, and played while holding the sustain: Vocal Pad, Data Link, Trigger 01, Pimp, Perpetuum all became unplayable eventually. I stopped there, realizing that this was going to be an issue for lots of them.

Again, the CPU shows maybe 5%.

I really want to buy this, but this is a big problem for me. Having to set the latency higher to allow a single plugin properly is a bit crazy. if there is a hard voice limit, surely there is a more elegant way to handle it?
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
KVRer
 
28 posts since 17 Oct, 2011
 

Postby origwt; Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:21 am

some special Qs here :)

Anyone know of a shortcut to delete a path point in the Grid without having to click on the DELETE button everytime? I would like to quickly test different paths somehow. I know there is a BROWSE function but I want to hear and test different custom paths while my sequence is running. Any tips from pros? Maybe I am dumb and missed some shortcut in the manual?


so what you actually want is to just move the last point from the path, right?
no thats not possible yet, you just can delete the whole path or the last point.
but an interesting feature request.

When I modulate Wave Grid path using O3 in Sub mode, what is the waveshape that will be used if I also modulate for instance its own wave position with another modulator source? Is the Sub Osc shape fixed or will it use the table as well, like if it was not a Sub Osc?


yes, it uses its actual waveform from the table.
KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 4 Oct, 2003
 

Postby MickGael; Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:15 am

My demo period is about to end. Could the devs please comment on the issue I am having?
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
KVRAF
 
1927 posts since 16 Aug, 2004, from Vienna, Austria
 

Postby arakula; Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:29 am

You mean the "issue" that you insist on running it at a buffer size of 32 samples, when that's clearly too low on your system?
"Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk." Image
KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 4 Oct, 2003
 

Postby MickGael; Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:00 am

arakula wrote:You mean the "issue" that you insist on running it at a buffer size of 32 samples, when that's clearly too low on your system?


Are you one of the Devs? And if you are, what the hell kind of attitude is that? I have dozens of VSTi, and this is the only one for which it is a problem. :roll:
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
KVRer
 
28 posts since 17 Oct, 2011
 

Postby origwt; Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:06 am

if you would have looked on the "about" screen, you would know who Hermann is.

WaveGenerator is a complex synth, not comparable with a sample player.
so if 128 samples is not acceptable for you, we cannot help you.
KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 4 Oct, 2003
 

Postby MickGael; Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:13 am

origwt wrote:if you would have looked on the "about" screen, you would know who Hermann is.

WaveGenerator is a complex synth, not comparable with a sample player.
so if 128 samples is not acceptable for you, we cannot help you.


Does that excuse his dismissive tone? Or yours?

To be clear: I never mentioned "sample players." RME measures latency in samples, which is why I referenced samples. No SYNTH I have has this problem. I was actually trying to be HELPFUL.

Screw it.

I won't be buying your product, given what I perceive as your passive-aggressive tone.

PS: I know full well who Hermann is, but I do not know him as "arakula". I asked because his brusque tone seemed unusual from someone directly involved with the product.
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
KVRAF
 
1927 posts since 16 Aug, 2004, from Vienna, Austria
 

Postby arakula; Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:26 am

As has been established, I'm one of the developers, yes 8-)

I'm sorry if my response came over as dismissive, it wasn't meant this way. But it's of course your right to interpret it any way you want.

OK, here's the long version, I got a little more time now...

WaveGenerator is highly complex. It's next to impossible to determine a "safe" number of voices for each possible machine / processor / sound card / program combination. Some operations are internally done in larger blocks, which doesn't necessarily correspond to the buffer size imposed by the host; so, with very small buffer sizes, some of the buffers take longer to process than others. That's presumably where your "5% CPU" come from - most buffers are processed quite fast - and also where your sound problems come from - some aren't.

If "it must work with the lowest possible latency setting of my RME" is a prerequisite for you, then, unfortunately, the current version is not the thing you need. There may be added optimizations in upcoming versions (you can be assured that this would find its way into the announcement), or there might be a faster machine coming your way. It's great if you don't have the problem with any other PlugIn, but that, unfortuately, doesn't constitute a universal fact.

I'd suggest switching to the next higher buffer size - which, given the RME quality, still means latencies that are absolutely unrecognizable.
Last edited by arakula on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can walk." Image
KVRAF
 
1800 posts since 4 Oct, 2003
 

Postby MickGael; Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:30 am

arakula wrote:As has been established, I'm one of the developers, yes 8-)

I'm sorry if my response came over as dismissive, it wasn't meant this way. But it's of course your right to interpret it any way you want.

OK, here's the long version, I got a little more time now...

WaveGenerator is highly complex. It's next to impossible to determine a "safe" number of voices for each possible machine / processor / sound card / program combination. Some operations are internally done in larger blocks, which doesn't necessarily correspond to the buffer size imposed by the host; so, with very small buffer sizes, some of the buffers take longer to process than others. That's presumably where your "5% CPU" come from - most buffers are processed quite fast - and also where your sound problems come from - some aren't.

If "it must work with the lowest possible latency setting of my RME" is a prerequisite for you, then, unfortunately, the current version is not the thing you need. There may be added optimizations in upcoming versions (you can be assured that this would find its way into the announcement), or there might be a faster machine coming your way. It's great if you don't have the problem with any other PlugIn, but that, unfortuately, doesn't constitute an universal fact.

I'd suggest switching to the next higher buffer size - which, given the RME quality, still means latencies that are absolutely unrecognizable.


Thanks, I appreciate your taking the time to offer a fuller response. :hug:
"Time makes fools of us all. Our only comfort is that greater shall come after us." Eric Temple Bell

http://thetomorrowfile.bandcamp.com/
KVRian
 
642 posts since 14 Nov, 2005, from sweden

Postby snigelx; Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:10 am

origwt wrote:some special Qs here :)

Anyone know of a shortcut to delete a path point in the Grid without having to click on the DELETE button everytime? I would like to quickly test different paths somehow. I know there is a BROWSE function but I want to hear and test different custom paths while my sequence is running. Any tips from pros? Maybe I am dumb and missed some shortcut in the manual?


so what you actually want is to just move the last point from the path, right?
no thats not possible yet, you just can delete the whole path or the last point.
but an interesting feature request.


Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

origwt wrote:
When I modulate Wave Grid path using O3 in Sub mode, what is the waveshape that will be used if I also modulate for instance its own wave position with another modulator source? Is the Sub Osc shape fixed or will it use the table as well, like if it was not a Sub Osc?


yes, it uses its actual waveform from the table.


I figured, based on what I was hearing, but I thought I would throw that Q in there to get an official answer. Thanks for the info.

I've since purchased a license. I appreciate the comprehensive tutorial bank (Recommended studying). That was a good idea and it really helped to illustrate a few of the shadier areas (for me at least) about the Grid in the manual. So thanks for the time and effort to include it. Looking forward to the future development of the instrument, although it is fantastic as is.
KVRer
 
28 posts since 17 Oct, 2011
 

Postby origwt; Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:20 am

thanks,
nice to hear that !

and yes, it needs some time to understand the structure of the synth and to get the most out of it :)
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