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Studio one

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Skorpius
KVRist
 
214 posts since 6 Mar, 2012

Postby Skorpius; Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:21 am Re: Studio one

dsan@mail.com wrote:Deppy, I have to ask too, what midi features is it lacking?


For example:

Cubase.jpg
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kev2525
KVRist
 
233 posts since 7 Apr, 2010

Postby kev2525; Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:13 am Re: Studio one

dsan@mail.com wrote:Deppy, I have to ask too, what midi features is it lacking?


It is also missing any midi plugs of its own like an arp, delay, beat designer (ala cubase), step sequencer. And any plugs you do insert of your own need to be on another track. Not a huge ball ache, but annoying none the less.

The beat designer in cubase is very simple, but hugely useful. They already have impact so having something more intuitive to sequence beats seems like a logical step to me.

Image

A simple sequencer like the one is invaluable for me. Having it tightly integrated into the host would be fantastic

Image

The quantisation presets in logic and cubase are better and they seem to have a more visual way of setting it up. It's just better:

Image

Some sort of chord function would be nice so you can set the key you want to write in and then jam along and it would write some midi data for your in the correct key. There is lots of work to be done for the midi side of S1.
My milkshake brings all the girls to the yard

http://soundcloud.com/the-boogee-man
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:14 am Re: Studio one

These discussions about S1 midi features always get a little nutty. I say that in a very respectful way... but they do. :(

S1 is a version 2.6 and if you can't easily find missing midi functions you're either blinded by love of it or you aren't looking hard enough. I don't mind waiting for those things at all personally, that's the bargain we always make with any brand new software release, so it's not anything to stress over, the work gets done anyway.

But let's not be be like some Reaper users who seem to rationalize anything missing. S1 is (afaict, correct me if I'm wrong) the only really major daw / midi sequencer that doesn't even have any midi plugins, or a good patch bank management system.

We can say that out loud without being disrespectful to the developers. :) All things take time and effort and planning, or they end up being really klunky and cause more moaning. They can't do it all at once. But pretending some of those things aren't 'standard' or 'basic' in most pro sequencers is really kinda silly and a little bit defensive.

While some others are moaning for the fancy loopy flashy midi stuff from Live and Bitwig or whatever, or for some random midi one horse trick function that you might use once a month, or expecting the Cubase Midi Logical Editor ?, a thing which is arguably the single most powerful midi data editing tool in the entire Cubase application, my midi wants are a good bit more reasonable.

I just want (before all of the flashy daw war stuff) simple and very basic inline midi plugins and some other more fundamental things like a good midi patch and bank management system.

What they've done with the product so far is, imo, mmv, really quite impressive. But there's still a good bit of road to travel. It's a 2.6 for god's sake. :) On what imaginary planet would it ever have most of the midi functions of Cubase already?

Anyway, I doubt if you'll see S1 being arguably on par with the major historical sequencers, as relates to the more agreeable midi functions that cover most of the bases for most power users, until at least about version 4 or 5.
Last edited by LawrenceF on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
1971 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:44 am Re: Studio one

Thank you Skorpius and kev2525 for posting some of the missing midi features.

I can appreciate that another may have use for the example features, however, to me these are irrelevant.

I guess it's all in what one gets used to and needs from their DAW.

I tend to take what a DAW has to offer and accept the included features, not really expecting it to be something else. That's probably why I have so many DAW's :hihi: (including Cubase).

I find each has its own value and while they all essentially do the same, there are nuances of each that I prefer (or not as the case may be).

A feature in one may be missed in another but still, it does not end my day if it exists in one and not the other. If i need to work with a specific feature not found in a DAW, I open the one with the feature I need to work with. (I feel fortunate I have the ability to own multiple DAW's and realize others may not be that fortunate. So, no way am I critical if another desires missing features in the DAW they do own.)

Truth be known, I don't get that deep in my productions to need the features you have supplied. There are multiple "work-arounds" I am happy to perform. I DO realize a production facility trying make a living will need features I do not.

Yes, S1 is missing some things, if you want to see it that way. As development takes place I am hopeful they add missing features to make all our lives easier.....in the meantime, I will use it, and enjoy, the features they have included.

I enjoyed your posts Skorpius and kev2525 because I learned something! Thanks!

I am glad to see LawrenceF posted in this thread. He is the KVR-S1 guru and I will bet if we think a feature is missing he can show us where it exists. Or at least something that will get the job done. I'd also bet he has built some macro function that will accomplish what the other DAW's won't ;)

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:52 am Re: Studio one

To be clear, my comments weren't really about expectations, we all have very high expectations, I know I do.

My comments were more about - unreasonable - expectations. :) You can't code a Cubase level midi sequencer / editor in 5 or 6 years. It simply can't be done unless you have a really big coding team. I mean, Microsoft could probably do it if they were motivated.

If anyone has ever actually done that, I'd be interested to see it. All of the best sequencers (Cubase, FLStudio, Logic, Sonar) are decades along that path.

It's just really odd to see people talk about the obvious missing things as if it's surprising that some of that stuff is missing. It's not. It's reality. Please join the rest of us over here in the real world where things often take a really, really long time. ;)

Or take a look at Reaper, a team of a similar size who (according to many) have a pure coding genius at the helm. It's approaching version 5. What does it's midi sequencer look like compared to Cubase overall?
Last edited by LawrenceF on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
kev2525
KVRist
 
233 posts since 7 Apr, 2010

Postby kev2525; Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:57 am Re: Studio one

@ dsan@mail.com diferent strokes for different folks I guess. I also own an intro version of live which I like to use to sketch out ideas,but S1 wins in the ease of use department by miles.

@ LawrenceF I totally get where you are coming from and S1 is indeed a very accomplished DAW for it's age. In fact it's so intuitive and easy to use that I just wish it had the extra things I listed above to make it "complete" for me. I know everyone is different and my comments are really more of a feature request than a moan about what is missing. I got maschine mikro to make my beats, but even that is just overkill for me. I just want a little midi love for S1 to make it a simple and all encompassing DAW. These features probably don't appeal to the crowd who record their bands, but to me they really help. And it never hurts to point out what you would like because as the NSA taught us you never know who is listening. :party:
My milkshake brings all the girls to the yard

http://soundcloud.com/the-boogee-man
kev2525
KVRist
 
233 posts since 7 Apr, 2010

Postby kev2525; Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:03 am Re: Studio one

LawrenceF wrote:To be clear, my comments weren't really about expectations, we all have very high expectations, I know I do.

Or take a look at Reaper, a team of a similar size who (according to many) have a pure coding genius at the helm. It's approaching version 5. What does it's midi sequencer look like compared to Cubase overall?


Reaper only just got a sequencer.... I guess i'll just have to wait patiently for mine....
My milkshake brings all the girls to the yard

http://soundcloud.com/the-boogee-man
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:38 am Re: Studio one

:) I meant the daw sequencer, not a sequencer plugin.

Anyway... you would think a thing like inline midi plugins would easily be at the top of the midi FR list but it doesn't seem to be. Basic workhorse inline midi plugins certainly wouldn't make a big splash as a new feature on the marketing front, that's for sure. :)

I'm always puzzled (relatively speaking) how it's not always the very first thing that comes up in any discussion about missing midi features when it seems to me to be the single most glaring missing midi thing.

We are aware (aren't we?) that the Cubase Beat Designer thingy and many of it's other cool little midi tools with nice looking guis and midi functions are midi plugins?
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
1971 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:20 am Re: Studio one

Lest we forget, the others didn't have everything they have on the first go-arounds. Took them a while to develop to where they are. Remember the original Cakewalk? Great program but no where near as advanced as today's model. Cubase too. By comparison it wasn't even what Reaper, or S1 for that matter, were when first introduced.

I suspect S1 will come with all these goodies too at some point. As it stands I find it quite usable though. If I need an arp, I ad Kirnu or Cantanya (bridged of course :x)

To me, bottom line, is no matter what functions or features software has their will always be complaints. Well, maybe complaints is too harsh...there will always be something missing or not done to the expectations of another. ;)

So talk to the developers about what you want/need in their products. Sometimes it may not seem like it but they will listen. (Mostly :hihi:)

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
VariKusBrainZ
KVRAF
 
3550 posts since 16 Dec, 2002, from over there

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:45 am Re: Studio one

Skorpius wrote:
dsan@mail.com wrote:Deppy, I have to ask too, what midi features is it lacking?


For example:

Cubase.jpg


Cant you already do alot with Macros, or create your own?

Just saying.

Though I agree S1 is missing alot of built in stuff compared to the competitors.
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:51 am Re: Studio one

@ DSan: Yep. It's a really great product, it's just that for people who are accustomed to using some of those more advanced midi functions, it's a good bit more work in S1 to get some of the same things done... so that move is not an easy decision if you actually need that stuff.

I struggled over that decision myself for quite a few weeks or months, knowing for certain that some things i wanted to do with midi would quite literally take 5-10 times longer. At the end of the day it all balanced out for me though. I accepted those limitations ("eyes wide open" as it were) for more general comfort overall.

In other words, the Cubase UI and general workflow was ultimately more annoying than losing those great midi functions. :)
User avatar
HydrogenHuman
KVRist
 
137 posts since 1 Nov, 2008

Postby HydrogenHuman; Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:00 am Re: Studio one

LawrenceF wrote: In other words, the Cubase UI and general workflow was ultimately more annoying than losing those great midi functions. :)


This was the exact reason why I left Cubase for Studio One. I wanted ease of use more than lots of functionality.

I know that Studio One can only get better and better as it goes along.
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:06 am Re: Studio one

Ah, never mind. Redundant to the point of... being nutty. :)
dsan@mail.com
KVRAF
 
1971 posts since 29 Sep, 2005

Postby dsan@mail.com; Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:50 am Re: Studio one

LawrenceF wrote:Ah, never mind. Redundant to the point of... being nutty. :)


:hihi: Too funny!

Likewise, I had prepared this dissertation of redundancy and decided "Oh, what the crap! These guys already know all this!" :D

So, good people, bring on some more examples so I can learn more! :)

Happy Musiking!
dsan
My System:
W7, i5, x64, 8Gb Ram
LawrenceF
KVRAF
 
4416 posts since 4 Dec, 2004

Postby LawrenceF; Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:41 am Re: Studio one

:hihi: I know.

Given that - for more conventional leaning daws anyway - there's not very much new to do, it'll be up there close enough with Cubase and similar in 5 years or so. The real trick will be if they can they pile on the features without destroying the workflow.

Curiously enough, for me, the more powerful Cubase got, the more the workflow suffered. Cubase VST 32 was a really easy thing to use. I hope S1 doesn't suffer a similar fate.
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