Closest thing to a fairlight CMI Series III emulation.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
So i know this is somewhat off topic, but this article basically talks about emulating a Super Nintendo system as accurately as possible.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/a ... -emulator/
Anyhow just going over this article i think i can see what another poster had said in how it is not possible right now to create a VST version that is 100% accurate.
Basically if it takes this much power to try and emulate a Super nintendo entertainment system, then trying to recreate a fairlight 100% accurately is pretty far off still.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/a ... -emulator/
Anyhow just going over this article i think i can see what another poster had said in how it is not possible right now to create a VST version that is 100% accurate.
Basically if it takes this much power to try and emulate a Super nintendo entertainment system, then trying to recreate a fairlight 100% accurately is pretty far off still.
- KVRAF
- 2289 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands
There's a big difference between building a system that can run all the original software (like a Ness emulator), and a system that reproduces the same result as the original without any backward compatibility.V0RT3X wrote:Basically if it takes this much power to try and emulate a Super nintendo entertainment system, then trying to recreate a fairlight 100% accurately is pretty far off still.
Creating a software version of the Fairlight is more like recreating a Ness game so it can run on a PC (for example), instead of building a Ness emulator. Without taking the amount of needed code into account of course, a Fairlight is obviously a 'big game'
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.
Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket
Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 16 Feb, 2014
Fairlight cmi sound is at 80% analog sound processing . analog filters, analog vca, analog converters + many other exciting things. Some people are completly ignorant of this and as the fairlight has some 6809 inside , they just believe they can get the same sound in their pc/mac . Lol
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
What the hell are you talking about? Where did you see a Fairlight with analogue filters? Or analogue VCAs?Amanray wrote:Fairlight cmi sound is at 80% analog sound processing . analog filters, analog vca, analog converters + many other exciting things. Some people are completly ignorant of this and as the fairlight has some 6809 inside , they just believe they can get the same sound in their pc/mac . Lol
Of course it had Analogue-to-Digital converters (it's a sampler), and it had to have Digital-to-Analogue converters, otherwise it could not produce a sound. Besides that, it was basically a computer (it was named Computer Musical Instrument - CMI - for a reason).
So, yes, we could have an emulation of a Fairlight inside our computer. Actually, they did one for the iPad. I believe it does not pay justice to the original, but hey, it's an iPad. In a modern desktop, I believe we could house a complete emulation of it's engine, with the same sampling capabilities, Fast Fourier Transforming and Graphics Tablet Waveform Drawing (provided we have something like a Wacom Tablet). Waveform editing is not necesary, since we have much better tools in our computers nowadays. And in what concerns ADCs and DACs, we have far better ones now too. So, what we would need is a transcription of the software code to run in a modern OS, in a supported format. As someone putted it - it would be like porting a game from a Nintendo DS to a PC.
BTW - The series III already had a Motorola 68000, which is much more powerful than the 6809, putting it in the same plane as the Macintosh SE, for example.
Fernando (FMR)
- KVRAF
- 2504 posts since 6 Jul, 2013
Sure, but that was just the overall processor for the machine, it didn't do the actual sample playback - for each voice, the Fairlight had dedicated voice cards with fairly hi-spec circuitry (this is why it does not transpose in the way modern software does, by resampling - it actually can vary the playback sample rate of the individual voice cards.)fmr wrote:BTW - The series III already had a Motorola 68000, which is much more powerful than the 6809, putting it in the same plane as the Macintosh SE, for example.
Emulating the Fairlight is not as simple as just emulating the main CPU in software - however, that's not to say it can't be done, just that it would seem to be less trivial than some people seem to think.
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
You are right about that. Differently to what happened in later samplers, the Fairlight had a card for each voice (that changed too in later versions). Nevertheless, I think that also could be emulated (not porting code anymore, but by circuit modelling perhaps). It's being done for analogue synths, why not for the Fairlight?beely wrote:Sure, but that was just the overall processor for the machine, it didn't do the actual sample playback - for each voice, the Fairlight had dedicated voice cards with fairly hi-spec circuitry (this is why it does not transpose in the way modern software does, by resampling - it actually can vary the playback sample rate of the individual voice cards.)fmr wrote:BTW - The series III already had a Motorola 68000, which is much more powerful than the 6809, putting it in the same plane as the Macintosh SE, for example.
Emulating the Fairlight is not as simple as just emulating the main CPU in software - however, that's not to say it can't be done, just that it would seem to be less trivial than some people seem to think.
Fernando (FMR)
- KVRAF
- 6326 posts since 18 Jul, 2008 from New York
Peter Vogel, the creator of the Fairlight, explains:fmr wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Where did you see a Fairlight with analogue filters?
http://petervogelinstruments.com.au/history/
The reason for this is that the CMI’s unique sound was the result of the limitations of the technology of the eighties. A-D and D-A converters were very primitive by today’s standards — the 1979 model CMI used eight bit audio, and even the top-notch Series III used only 16 bits (which performed more like 14 bits in reality). The variable pitch of the sample playback was generated by very crude hardware which approximated the pitch but introduced significant artefacts. To compensate for the noise and distortion introduced into the samples, the CMI used analogue low-pass tracking filters. The “tracking” involved dynamically setting the cuttoff frequency to just above the note being played.
The end result was a complex set of colourations which made the CMI sound so distinctive. To make it even more interesting, because of the large amount of analogue circuitry involved, the sound of each channel was subtly different, and these differences were quite variable and unpredictable.
- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
Ah... "those" filters. Notice he mentioned "analogue low-pass tracking filters." , and also: "The “tracking” involved dynamically setting the cuttoff frequency to just above the note being played."Frantz wrote:Peter Vogel, the creator of the Fairlight, explains:fmr wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Where did you see a Fairlight with analogue filters?
http://petervogelinstruments.com.au/history/
The reason for this is that the CMI’s unique sound was the result of the limitations of the technology of the eighties. A-D and D-A converters were very primitive by today’s standards — the 1979 model CMI used eight bit audio, and even the top-notch Series III used only 16 bits (which performed more like 14 bits in reality). The variable pitch of the sample playback was generated by very crude hardware which approximated the pitch but introduced significant artefacts. To compensate for the noise and distortion introduced into the samples, the CMI used analogue low-pass tracking filters. The “tracking” involved dynamically setting the cuttoff frequency to just above the note being played.
The end result was a complex set of colourations which made the CMI sound so distinctive. To make it even more interesting, because of the large amount of analogue circuitry involved, the sound of each channel was subtly different, and these differences were quite variable and unpredictable.
So, these were not traditional filters, as we see in synths, but filters that are there to avoid aliasing and other artifacts well known from anyone used to digital audio. and are dinamically transposing according to the note played (but they were filters, and they were analogue).
Brickwall filters to avoid artifacts like aliasing were mandatory in any sampler in the eighties. They all had some kind of brickwall filter for avoiding aliasing (and there were others that even had a kind of subtractive synthesis engine, like the Emulator II). Fairlight filters were different, since they were dynamic, which contributed for a better quality of the result, I guess.
But they are not filters as we understand them from synthesizers. Anyway, yes, if those are the filters referred, they are indeed present in the Fairlight, because "A-D and D-A converters were very primitive by today’s standards". Using today standards, they probably would not be needed, unless we wanted to emulate the behaviour of that old components (which could be done in software, anyways - but I would let go that part of the job without a problem).
Fernando (FMR)
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 4 Jul, 2014
It's always fun arguing about the easiness vs complexity of something that no-one involved in the discussion is actually capable of doing
The Fairlight isn't a 'sampler' in the modern sense, although it's what coined the term. It's an additive synthesizer with the ability to record in external sounds, which are digitized into multi-segment wavetables, with each segment broken into individual sine-wave components (FFT) for manipulation by the additive synth engine (similar concept as the Alchemy Plugin)
For something similar (manipulating samples with an additive engine) you could try the Alchemy Plugin.
If you don't care about additive editing, and all you want is something that uses a similar concept for sampling (i.e, digitize sounds into multi-segment wavetables for playback), you could try one of the newer PPG Wave plugins.
On the other hand, if all you are after is just the classic sounds from the Fairlight (not the synth/sample engine) then try Hollow Sun, or the UVI library. Or there are bound to be free downloads elsewhere on the net if you prefer to spend time over money.
The Fairlight isn't a 'sampler' in the modern sense, although it's what coined the term. It's an additive synthesizer with the ability to record in external sounds, which are digitized into multi-segment wavetables, with each segment broken into individual sine-wave components (FFT) for manipulation by the additive synth engine (similar concept as the Alchemy Plugin)
For something similar (manipulating samples with an additive engine) you could try the Alchemy Plugin.
If you don't care about additive editing, and all you want is something that uses a similar concept for sampling (i.e, digitize sounds into multi-segment wavetables for playback), you could try one of the newer PPG Wave plugins.
On the other hand, if all you are after is just the classic sounds from the Fairlight (not the synth/sample engine) then try Hollow Sun, or the UVI library. Or there are bound to be free downloads elsewhere on the net if you prefer to spend time over money.
- KVRAF
- 9579 posts since 16 Dec, 2002
Maybe Aly James is the man to approach, he seems pretty good at emulating hardware
http://www.alyjameslab.com
http://www.alyjameslab.com
Amazon: why not use an alternative
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 13 Oct, 2013 from Sweden
Your right, there's a big difference between Fairlight's, everything less than a series III, is much simpler. In terms of the sound boards, each board is very simple, an 8 bit dac and some basic filters and 16k of sound memory, they work like dma's.
The difficulty is a myth, emulating the software well that's complicated.
The difficulty is a myth, emulating the software well that's complicated.
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- KVRer
- 3 posts since 13 Oct, 2013 from Sweden
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I know the Fairlight IIx (and below) hardware inside out, what do you want to know?VariKusBrainZ wrote:Maybe Aly James is the man to approach, he seems pretty good at emulating hardware
http://www.alyjameslab.com (http://www.alyjameslab.com)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 8414 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Alesia
Help us develop a software emulation!spectromatix wrote:I know the Fairlight IIx (and below) hardware inside out, what do you want to know?VariKusBrainZ wrote:Maybe Aly James is the man to approach, he seems pretty good at emulating hardware
http://www.alyjameslab.com
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- Waaaaahhh
- 2224 posts since 30 Jul, 2001 from montreal, quebec,canada
arent DAWS everything the failight did ?
I mean an additive synth, a sampler, a Sequencer
why not just put a Bitcrusher on your tracks and there you go.
Besides who wants an emulation of something inferior to today's Digital tech
I mean an additive synth, a sampler, a Sequencer
why not just put a Bitcrusher on your tracks and there you go.
Besides who wants an emulation of something inferior to today's Digital tech
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.
https://soundcloud.com/realmarco
...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.
https://soundcloud.com/realmarco
...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Just received the Aly James xmas newsletter where it says:
"Working on a Legendary Fairlight CMI Sampler Emulation, the SAMPLIGHT
This will be able to read original voice files of the CMI and sample any audio content to the Fairlight gritty specs, a Vintage sampler to drawn into the low green resolution of your mind..."
"Working on a Legendary Fairlight CMI Sampler Emulation, the SAMPLIGHT
This will be able to read original voice files of the CMI and sample any audio content to the Fairlight gritty specs, a Vintage sampler to drawn into the low green resolution of your mind..."
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.