What is a (i.e. C/D) chord?
- KVRAF
- 5805 posts since 8 May, 2008 from ssssskipping ......... I left you there
It would be a C chord with D in the bass. In this case D is not part of a straight C chord, it should be C9/D (A ninth C chord does have a D).
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
"It should be C9" - it never is in practice, though. 'C/D' seems to suffice in that convention. There are people that think of '9th chord' as indicating or even requiring a 7th, a jazz thing, and this is more a jazz convention of shorthand.
The D in the bass - 9 in the bass is peculiar - may mean the thing works more as D is the bass function [eg, 'V'] but this is easier to cop by sight than indicating all the components of that 11th type chord.
The D in the bass - 9 in the bass is peculiar - may mean the thing works more as D is the bass function [eg, 'V'] but this is easier to cop by sight than indicating all the components of that 11th type chord.
Last edited by jancivil on Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2367 posts since 17 Apr, 2004
Depending on context, slash chords may be purely meant for a guitarist - in this case, it gives you information on the fingering and therefore which inversion to use. In other cases, particularly online chords for popular music, it might be there to tell the bass player what the bass guitar should play, rather than having a separate bass tab. In other words, this might indicate that the guitar should play a straight C (C E G), while the bass should play a D. Of course, if you're playing solo guitar, you might want to accentuate the D bass on the guitar in the absence of a bass player in this case. It's quite common to have things like a C B A bass line while the guitar chords are C C Am; you could notate that as C C/B Am rather than notating the bass and guitar parts separately.
Personally I'd expect a 9th chord to include the 7th, otherwise I'd notate the chord Cadd9 - then it's clear that there is no 7th. Of course Cadd9 itself doesn't indicate that the bass note should be a D.
Personally I'd expect a 9th chord to include the 7th, otherwise I'd notate the chord Cadd9 - then it's clear that there is no 7th. Of course Cadd9 itself doesn't indicate that the bass note should be a D.
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- KVRAF
- 11093 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal
The way I see it (hard to tell without knowing the rest of the music) is more in the case you pointed above. In that case, the D will be just a passing note, and the chord, most likely remains from previous tempo.sjm wrote:It's quite common to have things like a C B A bass line while the guitar chords are C C Am; you could notate that as C C/B Am rather than notating the bass and guitar parts separately.
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- KVRAF
- 10261 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Roseville, CA
As as bassist, I most often encounter this when it's a pedaled bass - i.e., the bass stays on one note while the chords change over it. @mementus - what chord(s) precedes the C/D?
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- KVRAF
- 6254 posts since 25 Mar, 2004
While technically a 9th, the D in the bass in a pop music (jazz too I suppose) context provides a transitory tension, not unlike a suspended chord, until resolution occurs with a more traditional voicing, either with C in the bass, or with another chord entirely.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
well, it is a {double} sus chord then, but resolution is not necessary per se. For instance a 'IV' feel with 'V' in the bass, or D11th chord. C E G to B D G, bass D to G, for instance.
- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
exactly that. it's great because you can write in a second for different instruments what to play for example C/D means guitar play straight Cmaj while the bassist play the D.standalone wrote:It would be a C chord with D in the bass. In this case D is not part of a straight C chord, it should be C9/D (A ninth C chord does have a D).
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- KVRAF
- 6804 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
Egad what a mess.
A C\D means a C chord with a D in the bass It is not a 9 or add 9 or add2
In order for it to be a 9 chord that would mean that the D note is added after the C chord is established.
From low to high
C-E-G-D
1-3-5-9 just like scale tones.
An add 2 or simply a 2 means that the 1 comes before/Below it.
C-D-E-G
1-2-3-5
When playing a C/D chord it usually skips the first E
So it's either
D-G-C-E
Or
D-C-E-G
Guitarists can play those chords with all the notes just fine.
A C\D means a C chord with a D in the bass It is not a 9 or add 9 or add2
In order for it to be a 9 chord that would mean that the D note is added after the C chord is established.
From low to high
C-E-G-D
1-3-5-9 just like scale tones.
An add 2 or simply a 2 means that the 1 comes before/Below it.
C-D-E-G
1-2-3-5
When playing a C/D chord it usually skips the first E
So it's either
D-G-C-E
Or
D-C-E-G
Guitarists can play those chords with all the notes just fine.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
if it is a 'C chord', a D is at a [second or] ninth as per *C chord*, obviously. It being a fourth inversion, we would still call it a 9th, just as a seventh chord in third inversion is still a seventh chord. To say it can't possibly be any 9th just out of its position ignores this. This typically means there is a seventh, however.
That said, I would call 'add2' when D is at a second from C. That's a useful convention for indicating things succinctly in a chord chart. So I personally really would not want 'C/D' as 'Cadd2'.
As I said, it might not work as a C chord. If the D there is some bass movement in *passing*, /D is a convenience to indicate the guitar player do that bit as a de facto bass player. However it may be that kind of 'suspended' sound and the 'C' part is 7, 9, 11 on a D bass.
I would say that a genuine 9 in the bass is a bit avant-garde for pop music so it is more likely to be one of these two things than a genuine 9th chord but <[D] in the bass> does not through itself make <D = 9> any impossibility. The composer can intend 9th as a function of C, in the bass, and the voice leading follows that.
In a pop or lead sheet kind of deal it probably isn't a genuine 9th chord but ruling out '9' absolutely is dogmatic. It's all about usage. If D G C E ends up E G C E it's one thing, but in itself it has this quartal [suspended] aspect and the voice leading/part writing defines what it is by the next move.
That said, I would call 'add2' when D is at a second from C. That's a useful convention for indicating things succinctly in a chord chart. So I personally really would not want 'C/D' as 'Cadd2'.
As I said, it might not work as a C chord. If the D there is some bass movement in *passing*, /D is a convenience to indicate the guitar player do that bit as a de facto bass player. However it may be that kind of 'suspended' sound and the 'C' part is 7, 9, 11 on a D bass.
I would say that a genuine 9 in the bass is a bit avant-garde for pop music so it is more likely to be one of these two things than a genuine 9th chord but <[D] in the bass> does not through itself make <D = 9> any impossibility. The composer can intend 9th as a function of C, in the bass, and the voice leading follows that.
In a pop or lead sheet kind of deal it probably isn't a genuine 9th chord but ruling out '9' absolutely is dogmatic. It's all about usage. If D G C E ends up E G C E it's one thing, but in itself it has this quartal [suspended] aspect and the voice leading/part writing defines what it is by the next move.
Last edited by jancivil on Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
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- KVRAF
- 6804 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
No.
In order for it to be a 9th chord the C must be established below the D.
Chords are generally spelled by the tones starting at the root on the bottom.
C-E-G
1-3-5
If you continue on the scale you don't hit the 9th D till you pass the octave for the C
C-E-G-C-D
1-3-5-8-9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_chord
An add 2 chord or 2 chord means that the note is added between the 1 and the three.
C-D-E-G
The D note does not sit between a played C note and a played E note. Instead it sits below the chord. C / D the Chord Over (higher notes) D (lower note)
In order for it to be a 9th chord the C must be established below the D.
Chords are generally spelled by the tones starting at the root on the bottom.
C-E-G
1-3-5
If you continue on the scale you don't hit the 9th D till you pass the octave for the C
C-E-G-C-D
1-3-5-8-9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_chord
An add 2 chord or 2 chord means that the note is added between the 1 and the three.
C-D-E-G
The D note does not sit between a played C note and a played E note. Instead it sits below the chord. C / D the Chord Over (higher notes) D (lower note)
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- KVRian
- 1000 posts since 1 Dec, 2004
C/D strictly means "C chord played with D in the bass".
But as jancivil said, most often it's really a Dsus chord with the 2nd and 7th in addition to the 4th. It's sometimes written as Am7/D (this adds A to the voicing but it's still basically the same chord) or D11 (which has the same notes - D A C E G - the 3rd should not be played on 11th chords). You could also spell it as Cadd9/D. I personally consider the underlying chord to be D9sus4 - Dsus4 with the 7th and 9th jazz extensions, and C/D as just a shorthand spelling. So it's not really a C chord at all.
If you add the 13th, you get D13sus4 (which you could also spell as Cmaj7/D, but not as D13 because "13" normally implies that you still have the 3rd, but not the 11th because it would be too dissonant against the third).
Of course "C/D" can also appear in a bass pedal progression such as D C/D Bbmaj7/D Am11/D etc... in which case none of the above is true.
Btw, "add2" is equivalent to "add9". Chord symbols don't really specify voicing information, and C-D-E-G and C-E-G-D are just two voicings of the same chord.
But as jancivil said, most often it's really a Dsus chord with the 2nd and 7th in addition to the 4th. It's sometimes written as Am7/D (this adds A to the voicing but it's still basically the same chord) or D11 (which has the same notes - D A C E G - the 3rd should not be played on 11th chords). You could also spell it as Cadd9/D. I personally consider the underlying chord to be D9sus4 - Dsus4 with the 7th and 9th jazz extensions, and C/D as just a shorthand spelling. So it's not really a C chord at all.
If you add the 13th, you get D13sus4 (which you could also spell as Cmaj7/D, but not as D13 because "13" normally implies that you still have the 3rd, but not the 11th because it would be too dissonant against the third).
Of course "C/D" can also appear in a bass pedal progression such as D C/D Bbmaj7/D Am11/D etc... in which case none of the above is true.
Btw, "add2" is equivalent to "add9". Chord symbols don't really specify voicing information, and C-D-E-G and C-E-G-D are just two voicings of the same chord.
- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
That's really just your lack of education. I anticipated this exactly so I went into detail and showed how it is harmonically the 9th in such a case, but no. (You would benefit from obtaining some knowledge vis a vis some work in a part-writing {voice-leading} course, I think.) You actually think that because in order for the interval to be called 'a ninth from' literally means 'a ninth from' means that all '9th chords' absolutely must contain a literal ninth? Ok, think this through: what do you call it when the D above C is an octave and a ninth? A 17th chord? Jesus.tapper mike wrote:No.
In order for it to be a 9th chord the C must be established below the D.
Chords are generally spelled by the tones starting at the root on the bottom.
C-E-G
1-3-5
Let's have a look at your concept some more: If E is in the bass of a C chord, it now cannot be the third? If G is in the bass of a C chord, it now cannot be the fifth? If Bb is in the bass of a C7 chord, it now cannot be the seventh?
We call 'E G C' something other than a C major triad now??
These are, FYI, first inversion, second inversion, third inversion. Then the ninth in the bass is a fourth inversion. It's done, it was in both of my part-writing classes via a figured bass for instance; this is a known thing.