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raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Tue May 13, 2014 5:06 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"


So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.
cytospur
KVRian
 
986 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Tue May 13, 2014 5:19 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

raymondwave wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"


So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.


Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Tue May 13, 2014 6:14 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

cytospur wrote:
raymondwave wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"


So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.


Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.


It's kind of the punchiness that I don't like. With little detuning it's just a huge flangy buzz. I can't find a good balance there.

The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.
raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Tue May 13, 2014 6:43 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

I'm gonna take my words back a bit, I tried to match Dune 2 supersaw against D16 LUSH101 supersaw, that I've liked quite a bit and I could match them quite well. It just took some tweaking.

Altho I still think there is some boxiness in Dune 2's raw sound when you use osc stacks and some release on the ADSR. Like there was a small room ambience added, difficult to say.
cytospur
KVRian
 
986 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Tue May 13, 2014 7:03 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

raymondwave wrote:
cytospur wrote:
raymondwave wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"


So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.


Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.


It's kind of the punchiness that I don't like. With little detuning it's just a huge flangy buzz. I can't find a good balance there.

The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.


OK, I see. And what about using Gaussian or Random for the detuning algorithm? Do they help at all?
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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satYatunes
KVRAF
 
1893 posts since 22 Aug, 2006, from Charlotte

Postby satYatunes; Tue May 13, 2014 7:39 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

I found Gaussian fit to many sounds, with right amount of detune and density.
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Richard_Synapse
KVRian
 
811 posts since 19 Dec, 2010

Postby Richard_Synapse; Tue May 13, 2014 7:46 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

raymondwave wrote:The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.


Oscillator reset is useful when you want to phase-align oscillators 1-3 in some way, and density is 1, ie each stack uses a single oscillator. Some FM sounds also work best when all operators start at zero phase, rather than random phase.

Using reset on more than 1 oscillator can sound fine though, too, I've used it for the "32 Osc Bass" patch for instance. With the various tuning modes & amount control I'm sure there's more applications for it. In general random phase seems to work best for most sounds though, and thus is the default. :)

Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
Kriminal
Banned

Postby Kriminal; Tue May 13, 2014 8:04 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

i ALWAYS use osc reset on bass patches
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mcnoone
KVRAF
 
5993 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Tue May 13, 2014 6:52 pm Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

There's lots of ways to get punchier sounds, and also make the phasing detune thing mentioned not be an issue.
One thing is to try and set certain osc initial phases differently through the matrix.
Experimenting of course. The manual has this on it, but I found it does (for certain sounds) get rid of the phase issue that the poster above mentioned.
Osc Init Phase
This parameter sets the absolute starting phase of the oscillator whenever a note is triggered. As a conse- quence, it will no longer be in free-run mode. Set to zero, the specified oscillators starts at zero phase. An amount of +50 corresponds to a +180 degree phase shift, an amount of +100 to +360 degrees, etc. While the human hearing is largely insensitive to the starting phase of a single oscillator, the relative phase difference between both oscillators can matter in some cases, for example when both oscillators share the exact same frequency.

Another thing is, if you're going to use stacks/layers, then make the settings different for those stacks. If you just make 3 stacks and they're all 3 the same osc1 settings. Then of course you're gonna get that kind of phase issue. You'll need to set some with less detune, and change the "fine" settings in each osc differently, then try the osc init phase as suggested above. Not only different detune for each stack, but also the "Spread" (sprd) knob. Adjusting them will also help bring sound more to the front.

I rarely use the reset to get punch. I use other ways. The mseg's by making a downward fast sloping shape, then apply it through the matrix to some different targets. One would be the tune setting called (semi) and experiment. That's actually a much used technique in all other synths anyway. You can also try applying that to the cutoff filter, or even resonance to get good solid attack without that osc reset thing.

All I can say is after continual use for some days now. I'm blown away by Dune2. It really does reward extra effort.
raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Wed May 14, 2014 1:04 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

Good points and tips there. Altho going into mod matrix to change osc phase values to get a better sounding supersaw is a tad too tweaky for me, since there are synths that do great supersaw with only one slider.

Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.

This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.

On another matter, is it possible to change the MSEG grid to triplets? This would be lifesaver for wobbles :). Now it's quite difficult to do triplets. I guess one could do this with the sync rate, but it's a bit of a workaround. 1/4 is quite a sparse grid anyway.

I must say I'm quite happy with Dune 2 already. It's fun to use and I'm able to create great sounds with it that I wouldn't be able to do with any other synth I have.
Last edited by raymondwave on Wed May 14, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
cytospur
KVRian
 
986 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Wed May 14, 2014 1:15 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

raymondwave wrote:On another matter, is it possible to change the MSEG grid to triplets? This would be lifesaver for wobbles :). Now it's quite difficult to do triplets. I guess one could do this with the sync rate, but it's a bit of a workaround. 1/4 is quite a sparse grid anyway.


Set length to 12 and sync rate to 1/16th.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
11946 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed May 14, 2014 1:29 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

raymondwave wrote:Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.

This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.


Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.

Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.

Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).

UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed May 14, 2014 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
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raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Wed May 14, 2014 1:51 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

cytospur wrote:Set length to 12 and sync rate to 1/16th.


Yes, I know it's (sort of) possible, but for example that doesn't match my four chord structure using it in loop. I need to retrigger the note at 8 and leave rest of the MSEG empty for that to work. Maybe I could match it with another setting, I don't know.

Would be much easier if you could just change the snap grid to triplets if needed.
raymondwave
KVRist
 
218 posts since 2 May, 2014

Postby raymondwave; Wed May 14, 2014 2:02 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

Ingonator wrote:Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.

Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.

Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).

UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.


I tried to match my settings to D16 LuSH Supersaw at full density, I'm guessing that supersaw is "inspired" by JP8000 supersaw, but not exactly the original. It's a bit smoother than the one with your settings.
cytospur
KVRian
 
986 posts since 25 Jun, 2002, from London, UK

Postby cytospur; Wed May 14, 2014 2:04 am Re: DUNE 2 is out now!!

Ingonator wrote:
raymondwave wrote:Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.

This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.


Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.

Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.

Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).

UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.


Ingo


The corresponding mode in DUNE2 would be nonlinear not linear.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
DUNE2, Serum, Blofeld and compatibles wavetables: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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