So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"
DUNE 2 is out now!!
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
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- KVRian
- 1465 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.raymondwave wrote:So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
It's kind of the punchiness that I don't like. With little detuning it's just a huge flangy buzz. I can't find a good balance there.cytospur wrote:Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.raymondwave wrote:So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"
The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
I'm gonna take my words back a bit, I tried to match Dune 2 supersaw against D16 LUSH101 supersaw, that I've liked quite a bit and I could match them quite well. It just took some tweaking.
Altho I still think there is some boxiness in Dune 2's raw sound when you use osc stacks and some release on the ADSR. Like there was a small room ambience added, difficult to say.
Altho I still think there is some boxiness in Dune 2's raw sound when you use osc stacks and some release on the ADSR. Like there was a small room ambience added, difficult to say.
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- KVRian
- 1465 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
OK, I see. And what about using Gaussian or Random for the detuning algorithm? Do they help at all?raymondwave wrote:It's kind of the punchiness that I don't like. With little detuning it's just a huge flangy buzz. I can't find a good balance there.cytospur wrote:Try clicking on the Osc reset button. It makes it a lot punchier.raymondwave wrote:So far that's what I like the least in Dune 2. I can't find a good balance between density, amount and detune, it either sounds too blunt and thick or too thin or too detuned.Ingonator wrote:I really love the oscillator stack (or i like to call it "Superwave"
The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
- KVRAF
- 2103 posts since 22 Aug, 2006
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Richard_Synapse Richard_Synapse https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=245936
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1139 posts since 20 Dec, 2010
Oscillator reset is useful when you want to phase-align oscillators 1-3 in some way, and density is 1, ie each stack uses a single oscillator. Some FM sounds also work best when all operators start at zero phase, rather than random phase.raymondwave wrote:The osc reset maybe works with percussive stuff, but haven't find other use for it.
Using reset on more than 1 oscillator can sound fine though, too, I've used it for the "32 Osc Bass" patch for instance. With the various tuning modes & amount control I'm sure there's more applications for it. In general random phase seems to work best for most sounds though, and thus is the default.
Richard
Synapse Audio Software - www.synapse-audio.com
- Banned
- 6129 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society
There's lots of ways to get punchier sounds, and also make the phasing detune thing mentioned not be an issue.
One thing is to try and set certain osc initial phases differently through the matrix.
Experimenting of course. The manual has this on it, but I found it does (for certain sounds) get rid of the phase issue that the poster above mentioned.
I rarely use the reset to get punch. I use other ways. The mseg's by making a downward fast sloping shape, then apply it through the matrix to some different targets. One would be the tune setting called (semi) and experiment. That's actually a much used technique in all other synths anyway. You can also try applying that to the cutoff filter, or even resonance to get good solid attack without that osc reset thing.
All I can say is after continual use for some days now. I'm blown away by Dune2. It really does reward extra effort.
One thing is to try and set certain osc initial phases differently through the matrix.
Experimenting of course. The manual has this on it, but I found it does (for certain sounds) get rid of the phase issue that the poster above mentioned.
Another thing is, if you're going to use stacks/layers, then make the settings different for those stacks. If you just make 3 stacks and they're all 3 the same osc1 settings. Then of course you're gonna get that kind of phase issue. You'll need to set some with less detune, and change the "fine" settings in each osc differently, then try the osc init phase as suggested above. Not only different detune for each stack, but also the "Spread" (sprd) knob. Adjusting them will also help bring sound more to the front.Osc Init Phase
This parameter sets the absolute starting phase of the oscillator whenever a note is triggered. As a conse- quence, it will no longer be in free-run mode. Set to zero, the specified oscillators starts at zero phase. An amount of +50 corresponds to a +180 degree phase shift, an amount of +100 to +360 degrees, etc. While the human hearing is largely insensitive to the starting phase of a single oscillator, the relative phase difference between both oscillators can matter in some cases, for example when both oscillators share the exact same frequency.
I rarely use the reset to get punch. I use other ways. The mseg's by making a downward fast sloping shape, then apply it through the matrix to some different targets. One would be the tune setting called (semi) and experiment. That's actually a much used technique in all other synths anyway. You can also try applying that to the cutoff filter, or even resonance to get good solid attack without that osc reset thing.
All I can say is after continual use for some days now. I'm blown away by Dune2. It really does reward extra effort.
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
Good points and tips there. Altho going into mod matrix to change osc phase values to get a better sounding supersaw is a tad too tweaky for me, since there are synths that do great supersaw with only one slider.
Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.
This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.
On another matter, is it possible to change the MSEG grid to triplets? This would be lifesaver for wobbles . Now it's quite difficult to do triplets. I guess one could do this with the sync rate, but it's a bit of a workaround. 1/4 is quite a sparse grid anyway.
I must say I'm quite happy with Dune 2 already. It's fun to use and I'm able to create great sounds with it that I wouldn't be able to do with any other synth I have.
Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.
This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.
On another matter, is it possible to change the MSEG grid to triplets? This would be lifesaver for wobbles . Now it's quite difficult to do triplets. I guess one could do this with the sync rate, but it's a bit of a workaround. 1/4 is quite a sparse grid anyway.
I must say I'm quite happy with Dune 2 already. It's fun to use and I'm able to create great sounds with it that I wouldn't be able to do with any other synth I have.
Last edited by raymondwave on Wed May 14, 2014 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 1465 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
Set length to 12 and sync rate to 1/16th.raymondwave wrote: On another matter, is it possible to change the MSEG grid to triplets? This would be lifesaver for wobbles . Now it's quite difficult to do triplets. I guess one could do this with the sync rate, but it's a bit of a workaround. 1/4 is quite a sparse grid anyway.
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
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Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
- KVRAF
- 12522 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany
Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.raymondwave wrote: Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.
This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.
Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.
Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).
UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.
Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed May 14, 2014 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
Yes, I know it's (sort of) possible, but for example that doesn't match my four chord structure using it in loop. I need to retrigger the note at 8 and leave rest of the MSEG empty for that to work. Maybe I could match it with another setting, I don't know.cytospur wrote:Set length to 12 and sync rate to 1/16th.
Would be much easier if you could just change the snap grid to triplets if needed.
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- KVRist
- 261 posts since 2 May, 2014
I tried to match my settings to D16 LuSH Supersaw at full density, I'm guessing that supersaw is "inspired" by JP8000 supersaw, but not exactly the original. It's a bit smoother than the one with your settings.Ingonator wrote:Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.
Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.
Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).
UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.
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- KVRian
- 1465 posts since 26 Jun, 2002 from London, UK
The corresponding mode in DUNE2 would be nonlinear not linear.Ingonator wrote:Just tried your setting, sounds good indeed. Anyway it seems to be different to the "original" Supersaw that is included e.g with the new JP-8000 Osc in Diva.raymondwave wrote: Nevertheless I got a pretty good supersaw already with density of 12, gaussian tuning, detune at 60 %, spread at around 12 %. Using Vintage Saw wavetable (pos 50 %) for extra smoothness.
This sounds quite smooth, dense but not too thick.
The Roland Supersaw is based on 7 Saws with the center at a higer volume. In DUNE 2 this could correspond to using the"Linear" mode (which concerning the space between the Saws and relative volumes of the Saws seems to be the closest), a density of 7 and amoun ("AMT") of 90.
With Detune of 60% and Spread of 12% (like yours) this seems to sound OK but fine tuning is needed maybe. The original Supersaw did not use any stereo Spread AFAIK.
Will try to do a direct comparison with the Supersaw in Diva ASAP.
Of course also the choice of the filter is imprtant for the final sound. One of the "Clean" modes should fit better here IMO.
In the Roland Supersaw also some HP filter seemed to be invloved. MAybe this could be emulated using the additional HPF in the Effect section of the Filter (with routing "Effect" in before "Filter" using drag & drop).
UPDATE:
Just did a first comparison with the JP-8000 ("Digital Osc") module in Diva and the setting i mentioned (including the additional HPF) seemed to be very close already while nailing that sound 100% seems to quite difficult with most synths.
I also tried 7 Saws with a Gaussian curve but this seems to sound wrong.
Ingo
Wavetables for DUNE2/3, Blofeld, IL Harmor, Hive and Serum etc: http://charlesdickens.neocities.org/
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt
£10 for lifetime updates including wavetable editor for Windows.
Music: https://soundcloud.com/markholt