MDynamic EQ Threshold control

[djscorb]

Hi Vojtech

Yes, I placed Voxengo MSED before MDynamicEQ with the Mid band attenuated by 24dB. The MDynamicEQ set to work in MS mode and with another Voxengo MSED after it to restore the mid channel to it's original volume (24dB boost).

When fully linked, both mid and side get controlled equally but once below 100% link (even 99.8%) the behaviour is almost the same as when completely unlinked. I just tried this on a full stereo mix with just one band set with a threshold of -38dB and dynamics set to -24dB.

Surely there should be a gradual relaxing of the linking? At the moment the slider may as well be just an on/off link/unlink button. Perhaps it is to do with the way the channels are summed in the level detector?

I understand that you consider my use of the plugin for tackling problems in mastering an extreme and rare case but when using the plugin in M/S mode (particularly in mastering) one threshold for both mid and side doesn't make any sense. The Side channel is always way lower in level than the mid component so being able to set thesholds seperately for each is kind of essential.

I will most likely need to use this technique at some point again his week so will try the sidechain idea instead and see how that works out.

Cheers

Scorb

[djscorb]

Ah!

Quick update!

It isn't resticted to mid side mode this unlinking problem.

Try this:

Set plugin to L/R mode, a band to -24dB dynamic action and with channel linking set to 100%.

Now, pan the audio fully left with a utility plugin BEFORE MDynamicEQ.

In the advanced pane you can see that both channels are being attenuated.

Now adjust the link control to anything but 100%.

There is no attenuation going on in the right channel.

Shouldn't there be some attenuation still in the right hand channel until the link control is fully at 0%?

Cheers

Scorb

[MeldaProduction]

Ha! That looks like a bug, I'll investigate.

[MeldaProduction]

And it's a bug indeed!!! Will be fixed!!!

[djscorb]

Hi Vojtech

ok cool. I hope it's not too much of a pain to fix.

I think that the technique of placing a mid channel cut before MDynamic EQ and a boost to compensate afterwards will be fine for my workflow once channel linking works as expected.

By adjusting the boost to get the balance between mid and side just right for MDynamicEQ's single threshold control, combined with the linking, should work in nearly any scenario I can conceive of.

It's just a shame it requires three plugins and going back and forth with thos pre and post gains.

Cheers

Scorb

p.s

It's just my opinion here, but I reckon that surround mixing with MDynamicEQ is a far more esoteric and rare use case than wanting to trigger reduction in the mid channel from events in the side.

I think it makes more sense to make dedicated surround tools for certain plugins because, as you rightly point out, the needs and flexibility needed for one compromises the simplicity of the other.

[MeldaProduction]

Fixed! It was harder than I thought, but the main "problem" was really just "one character" . Damn...

Anyway surround mixing, who knows . Personally I don't do surround at all, but more and more people surprise me when they do. I'd use dedictated surround stuff for mixing, but you have to master it as well. And sometimes you may have recording already in surround - a symphonic orchestra for example. It must be a pretty hardcore job to do that .

Anyway to your situation - I'm thinking about a link grid... A popup window, where you could set levels for each channel to each channel. It's an extreme solution to be honest, but it would be probably the most generalized way to do what you want.

[djscorb]

Hi again

Cool, glad you tracked it down ok!

You are an absolute star. Any extra flexibility you are able to add for setting what triggers GR from one channel to another will be very welcome.

The way channel linking is achieved in DMG Audio Compassion is pretty extensive. Each channel has an XY pad allowing it to respond to either itself, the other channel or any combination of the two and at any level. Perhaps check it out if you get a chance as in practice it works really well and I've not seen any better way.

Totally agree about surround. I've not done any surround work myself either but I imagine that 95% or more of your users will be using the plugin in either L/R or M/S.

Anyway, thanks as always for your prompt and helpful response, it is very much appreciated

All the best

Scorb

[MeldaProduction]

My pleasure, will see how that goes .

[djscorb]

Hi Vojtech

I've just been trying to get my head around the new link grid feature and there are some major issues with it (at least for me!)

Firstly, is there a better way to label the boxes? I'm tying my brain in knots trying to work out for example how to configure the boxes such that Side information causes GR in Mid and Side whilst ignoring any Mid information. This would be a lot easier to work out were it not for the following problem:

Tweaking these parameters needs to be done in conjunction with viewing and adjusting the threshold and main link control in the advanced tab whilst paying attention to the threshold and GR metering.

The problem here is twofold:

i) Adjusting the threshold or in fact any parameter in the advanced tab makes the link grid popup disappear.

ii) The metering and GR display don't reflect the new settings from the link grid until both windows are shut down and then reopened.

This makes the feature largely useless in practice and extremely convoluted, especially when trying to get your head around the effect of the link grid for the first time. Is this behaviour intentional or unavoidable or is there a way for the metering etc to reflect changes to the detection immediately?

Also is there a way for the link grid popup to stay open until manually closed, and could the labelling of the link grid boxes give the user a more intuitive way of understanding which row or column relates to listening/detection and which relates to the actual processing / GR triggering?

Did you check out the channel linking X/Y pads in DMG Compassion? It is a far superior, faster, intuitive and more flexible way to define how each channel is affected by either itself or the other channel.

Cheers

Scorb

[MeldaProduction]

Hi Scrob,

I'll check it out. To be honest I don't use it as it is simply too deep, too specific. That's also why it will NOT be part of the main interface. The grid popup could probably be done, so that it won't disappear, I'll check. But what you mean by metering display doesn't reflect the new settings? Anyway I'll check. I checked Compassion of course, but unlike that one our plugins are capable of processing surround, which this one just isn't . The limitations are then pretty obvious...

Edit: Ahhh, you are right about the bug - it's not updating, shall be fixed.

[djscorb]

Hi again

Ah, that will really help if it updates the metering.

And if the popup with the gridlink on is able to remain open when adjusting the other panels then I'm sure I'll be able to get my head aroud the grid a bit better.

Yeah, I guess an XY pad for every surround channel would be possible but would probably require quite a bit of GUI real estate.

Thanks in advance for the fixes!

Scorb

[MeldaProduction]

All done . Except for the XY pad - note that it can NOT work like that. It would require an 8-dimensional cube editor

[djscorb]

Haha! Yeah, of course!

I look forward to the next update then.

Cheers

Scorb