KVR Audio

yul · Post by **yul** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:14 pm

Just asking...I have a feeling it doesn't but I want to understand if those synths are of higher quality besides the cool graphics as opposed to a PC version (albeit the PC versions are sometimes less cool in the graphics department but leverage the processor quite a lot). Thanks!

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:38 pm

Computing power takes power. So no - no tablet has the same CPU power as PC. They are way way different. Even given time, the problem is battery drain. A laptop is closer. To give another example, tablets can run one instrument - maybe four simple ones. A PC will run 30 maybe.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:41 pm

As I understand it, synths for the iPad are using workarounds in order to get a comparable sound.

Wormhelmet · Post by **Wormhelmet** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:45 pm

arkmabat wrote:As I understand it, synths for the iPad are using workarounds in order to get a comparable sound.

Can you explain a bit more in detail on that statement?

ZenPunkHippy · Post by **ZenPunkHippy** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:51 pm

Wormhelmet wrote:
arkmabat wrote:As I understand it, synths for the iPad are using workarounds in order to get a comparable sound.
Can you explain a bit more in detail on that statement?

With Alchemy Mobile we've had to reduce the number of additive oscillators, number of grains, and disable completely the spectral audio engine (among other things) so that presets load and play with a decent number of voices.

This will probably change at some point, when we can be certain the majority of our users are running newer devices ... but we still won't get desktop class performance.

As a rough estimate, a desktop CPU is between 5 and 10 times more powerful than the latest gen iPad CPUs. The clock speed of a single core and the fact that desktop CPUs have more cores are both factors.

Peace,
Andy.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:54 pm

I'm no iPad expert, but I'd be guessing lower sample rates and such. Many mobile applications limit the amount of effects that can be used etc. What kind of processor does the newest iPad have though?

On a random note, I'd love to see the Tunefish synth for mobile! That thing ran on my old laptop like a charm!

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:59 pm

arkmabat wrote:I'm no iPad expert, but I'd be guessing lower sample rates and such. Many mobile applications limit the amount of effects that can be used etc. What kind of processor does the newest iPad have though?

On a random note, I'd love to see the Tunefish synth for mobile! That thing ran on my old laptop like a charm!

Cough :

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=405737

gjvti · Post by **gjvti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:00 pm

Pretty much depends on which ipad you refer to
· ipad 2 GeekBench score ~500
· ipad air score ~2500
· macbooks 2014 score from 4000 up
But, this is certainly not only criteria, because my good old fujitsu T4310 · T6600 Core Duo (score up to 2000) is capable of running Live + Omnisphere + number of Alchemy instances + lots of other plugins depending on settings even at quite low latencies. I doubt I would be able to do that on iPad Air (which scores at ~2500) despite Korg states it is capable of playing around 20 tracks on ipad Air. Probably some developer could shed more light on this. The amount of RAM probably also plays some role - ipad - 512/1024MB whereas 32 bit windows machine has at least around 3GB available.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:04 pm

Freaking i7 only kicks in when it needs to. One could call it a lazy processor.

Wormhelmet · Post by **Wormhelmet** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:51 pm

Considering how long synth 1 has been around and the old PC's it used to run in in multiple instances, I would guess that developers had adopted utilizing current CPU power in their code and had to scale back with the insurgence of mobile device music making too. I remember running many instances of Synth 1 on my old win 98 machine with 512 mb RAM and 1GHz processor. I suspect efficient coding is key also in making suitable mobile platform synths. I don't really get synths that bog an i7 processor down with one instance.

We've seen hardware VA synths that sound absolutely incredible from late 90's on running on very little processing power. How much more powerful is an ipad2 compared to something like a Waldorf Q hardware synth processor?

I suspect that efficient coding on some of these synth apps is what makes them sound fantastic with a lot of features. I guess like regular PC or Mac VST's, it can vary greatly how much one developer gets out of the hardware and OS over another.

chroma · Post by **chroma** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:01 pm

disclaimer: i work for intel.

tablets are less perf by design. this isn't unlimited, but you can trade off performance for lower power. e.g. a core i3 has about 3x the perf of an atom running same frequency, but uses ~9x the power - and that's for the 'ULV' ultra-low-voltage model - which means the battery life is much lower. so, you either have higher power and less battery life (typical notebook) or lower performance and longer battery life - my ULV ultrabook averages ~5 hours, while an ipad can easily to 10-12 hours or more. the memory also makes this tradeoff - slower memory = less power, so memory will be significantly slower in a tablet usually. the slower parts tend to be cheaper too, which helps the tablets be cheaper, which is honestly a lot of their appeal as well.

if you really just want the tablet format with desktop/mobile power, there are options, at least in the windows world - you can get a MS surface pro with a desktop I7, or convertible laptops like the lenovo yoga, hp revolve, and dell xps18 - but they tend to be more expensive.

gjvti · Post by **gjvti** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:15 pm

chroma wrote:disclaimer: i work for intel.
....

well, and btw can mini itx thin motherboard with i7 4756T 35W series for example be run on battery at least for 1...4 hour - I mean what would be max current for such system? Universal batteries typically support up to 3A. Some laptops have 45W mobile series processors. Even most powerful i7 MS surface doesn't seem worth to me yet to do some incremental upgrade whereas custom thin mini itx with 4756T, if it can be run from battery and probably even fan-less, seems more appealing.

KrisM · Post by **KrisM** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:10 am

My Surface Pro 3 i5 runs circles around my iPad Mini Retina, but the iPad has at least twice the battery life. It's a trade off; that said I get several hours on my huge honking tablet (most music programs are blurry though =/ )

Bear in mind the SP3 gimps the Intel CPUs and throttles them back due to heat (I pretty much never reach the 2.9GHz "turbo" speed this i5 is capable of... 2.6GHz is the norm, with 2.2GHz common when pushed really hard. I have to try to get there though, it handles a lot more than any iPad before that happens).

9headshydra · Post by **9headshydra** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:42 am

"Does an IPAD have similar computing power than a PC to power those synths?"

obviously not but it already lets me create sounds, play them, sequence them, mix them and finalize complex tracks,

so it offers all the tools I need for making and producing music, wich is the goal for most of us , isn't it ?

I don't say it's perfect (like anything), just that it's a valid solution already.

if you are one of those guys who permanently tells thingslike "without this DAW or that synth I can't make this" or "X DAW sound better than Y DAW" or "I need 75 VSTi and 350 vst FX per song" , stay with your existing tools.

If not and if you consider that it's your own skills that make good music and not a bunddle of plugins you can go already with ipad.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:52 am

9headshydra wrote:"Does an IPAD have similar computing power than a PC to power those synths?"

obviously not but it already lets me create sounds, play them, sequence them, mix them and finalize complex tracks,

so it offers all the tools I need for making and producing music, wich is the goal for most of us , isn't it ?

I don't say it's perfect (like anything), just that it's a valid solution already.

if you are one of those guys who permanently tells thingslike "without this DAW or that synth I can't make this" or "X DAW sound better than Y DAW" or "I need 75 VSTi and 350 vst FX per song" , stay with your existing tools.

If not and if you consider that it's your own skills that make good music and not a bunddle of plugins you can go already with ipad.

Or buy a Core 2 Duo laptop that will cost peanuts, and will run better software, and still be able to achieve any of the above for a fraction of the cost of the iPad.

I mean, "if you consider that it's your own skills that make good music", than there's no reason to opt for an iPad, right? Unless you think it makes you "cooler"