VA Vs A

[jopy]

Ah, so this is where this is going. It seems the OP wasn't actually intended as a question, but rather, an invitation to hear how analog synthesizers aren't worth it. A person with an open question doesn't usually have multiple ready links to show that one side of the discussion must clearly be correct at his disposal.

I feel more than a little stupid for getting sucked in now.

[dcfac73]

Ah, so this is where this is going. It seems the OP wasn't actually intended as a question, but rather, an invitation to hear how analog synthesizers aren't worth it. A person with an open question doesn't usually have multiple ready links to show that one side of the discussion must clearly be correct at his disposal.

I feel more than a little stupid for getting sucked in now.

Wrong.

I was actually surfing Youtube to see what artists were using onstage and found them a day after the OP. It just so happens that many of them use digital gear. I only learned after posting this thread that ,most of the time, digital is indistinguishable from analogue. Previously my opinion was that analog sounded better. I actually own a few analogue synths.

[chk071]

It's not VA vs. analog, but if you want to praticipate... http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=433056

[fluffy_little_something]

I guess hardware gives a much more direct feeling than messing with the mouse. (Guess because I only had the Roland JX-8P without programmer, so I had to use those membrane buttons, which also felt very indirect.) Hardware is basically standalone, not dependent on an external and thus obvious software which most people know is buggy, which creates the sensation that software is just not as reliable and solid as hardware. The user interface of software can also make a big difference, even if the rest of the code is exactly the same. We associate certain properties with colors, but also with materials, textures, etc.

But I think most of that is just in the head. I heard that the old Prophet 8 had hardware problems as well, and it probably was not the only synth with such problems. After all, with hardware production costs are usually an issue so companies are tempted to save where they can, unless of course they produce luxury products, which is much easier today than decades ago when there was fierce competition among hardware synths.

I remember that when word processor software became available, it also took me quite a while to mentally switch from typewriter and pens to Word, although I was of course aware of the advantages. But using a pen and paper is just so much more freestyle and direct, so to speak.

Or think of doing drawings on paper vs in a CAD program.

[Lotuzia]

Here are 64 A/B clips between a real Jupiter 8 and Xils-Lab Oxium ( Jp8 Factory Library recreation )

Oxium/JP8 A
Oxium/JP8 B
Oxium/JP8 C
Oxium/JP8 D

I will make it clear : Oxium is NOT a Jupiter 8 clone, but an analog software synthesizer in its own league ( Filters were tuned by ears ) Oxium has unique features, and never seen modulators ( Mask Sequencers, double filter architecture ec ). As it, it is much more flexible than a Jupiter 8. But ..... even like this, its topology, different from the Jp8, and the limitations due to any circuit(s) modelling, make that it sounds somewhat different from an real analog synthesizer in some clips ( and I think this is true for any emulation, for various, and numerous reasons, hence why I still have, and cherish, my collection of hw ancesters )

I, also , would like to hear more a/b comparisions. Honnest ones, that is. Anyway, everyone can judge of the *analog character* of Oxium with these demos. Fwiw. LtZ

[fluffy_little_something]

The Jupiter 8 had strange presets, it seems. The brass pads and basses are my favorites, but just like with most software synths most factory presets sucked.

[jopy]

I was actually surfing Youtube to see what artists were using onstage and found them a day after the OP. It just so happens that many of them use digital gear. I only learned after posting this thread that ,most of the time, digital is indistinguishable from analogue. Previously my opinion was that analog sounded better. I actually own a few analogue synths.

But do you find that the analog process is different than the digital process? I know that I'm starting to conflate the hardware-software difference with the analog-digital difference, which is possibly the root of the problem I'm having, but I know that turning a knob on my analogs is going to be a lot more immediately satisfying than trying to work that same thing out on software, and still sounds better when it comes to zipper artifacts than most lower priced hardware VA units. Once you get a really high quality emulation, you're in Nord or Access Virus land, and that's not cheaper than analog comparisons like the recent Prophets or the Moog Sub 37.

I would also note that these bands that use software live are wealthy enough to have computer techs on tour with them, so some of the reliability issues some of us fear aren't there. I know that some are also not using soft synths per se, but rather are triggering samples from analog hardware.

[fmr]

I would also note that these bands that use software live are wealthy enough to have computer techs on tour with them, so some of the reliability issues some of us fear aren't there. I know that some are also not using soft synths per se, but rather are triggering samples from analog hardware.

They are using a computer to trigger samples from analog hardware?

[rod_zero]

I would also note that these bands that use software live are wealthy enough to have computer techs on tour with them, so some of the reliability issues some of us fear aren't there.

yeah cause using computers is rocket science.

[fluffy_little_something]

With the right settings even old synths such as Sylenth can sound awesome and close to analog hardware. Often to get there one has to keep it simple, though. I mean, some people use way too many waves per voice (simply because they are available) instead of emulating old hardware, i.e. usually 2 oscillators with only one wave each, maybe one additional sub-osc wave, that's it.

Just saying because I just programmed a Moogesque monster synth bass on Sylenth that way...

[pdxindy]

I was actually surfing Youtube to see what artists were using onstage and found them a day after the OP. It just so happens that many of them use digital gear. I only learned after posting this thread that ,most of the time, digital is indistinguishable from analogue. Previously my opinion was that analog sounded better. I actually own a few analogue synths.

Digital is more flexible. You can have any sort of arbitrary waveform as an Osc, wavetables, samples, dozens of different filter types and of course lots of polyphony.

I wouldn't say digital is indistinguishable, but rather it is close enough that those advantages are going to be more important to many/most people.

Analogue still has something digital doesn't...

[zerocrossing]

So, I think the A-B tests are pretty misleading for all the reasons already mentioned earlier in the thread. They all assume you're already at a patch, that you are not manipulating in real time in response to other musicians as part of a performance, and that the sound does not need to be adjusted rapidly because you just figured out that the dynamics of the room are so boomy that you need to pull back on your decay times, or the drummer is louder than you remembered.

The drummer is always louder than you remembered.

[zerocrossing]

Just on a bit of a tangent-
Even many well known acts don't use analog on stage anymore (let alone the original synths used in their recordings)....

While you're at it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k__6KlfuxBQ

Though, I did see him at a club a few years before this and his two G5 towers did manage to fail during the show and required a reboot. He charismatically apologized, though out some tee shirts and before you knew it, the music was happening again.

I think if I were doing any sort of consistent gigging, I'd go laptop for sure. Laptop, Maschine, Push, my Kemper Amp modeler and guitar. Wouldn't quite fit in a backpack, but a decent size duffle bag... I might bring along a ROMpler of some flavor, like a JD-xa, just in case and to use as a MIDI controller. My rig would probably be more like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9SbCeFcMPI

Analog synth to a show? Not for me. Love'm in the studio but tbh, no one, including me, would appreciate it in a live situation.

[Kriminal]

SPAM

[jopy]

Thought about this some more and came to a blindingly (ha ha, Thomas Dolby pun) obvious conclusion--if it comes down to workflow issues, then it's going to be completely subjective in terms of "best." What makes me do the best with what I can do may differ from what makes you do the best since our goals and mental processes likely differ. I think the point that quality analog sounds about as good as virtual analog in many respects is probably right, assuming all inputs to the process are equivalent. It's that input side that differs across performers.