KVR Audio

stikygum · Post by **stikygum** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:50 am

I'm really looking forward to be able to have automatic hands on control of all my plugin synths without having to set things up myself. From what I can tell Akai has done a pretty dang good job of figuring this all out. Hopefully Omnisphere 2 will have a map made for it, as I think it uses CCs for all of it's parameters, which is different than most other soft synths. But being able to do easily do splits between plugins and stack up to 8 plugins at the same time seems very inspiring. Combine that with their 1000 and some Arp patterns within their arpeggiator and it looks like inspiring times are ahead for VSTs.

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:54 pm

...I'm actually more excited about the stuff Nektar are doing. AFAIK, unlike Akai Advance, which basically seems to be a wrapper, they're using scripts, which work on the host's level and thus avoiding a wrapper plug-in. While I'm not sure about the Nektar keyboard, the P1 controller seems to be an interesting (and reasonably priced) product. And it also controls the DAW, not just the plug-ins. I haven't tested it, yet, and I think, it doesn't offer a preset-manager like Akai, but at the moment to me it seems a bit more thorough than the Akai system and even the NI Komplete Kontrol (but I'm curious about thei forth-coming announcements). Anyway, more info here:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2015/04/ ... el_stories

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:22 pm

These controllers are really expensive, even the cheapest one costs as much as $400

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Advance25

If I had that kind of money I'd rather buy Omnisphere 2

Maybe the controller could have been cheaper if it wasn't bundled with so much software?

With the Advance 25 you also get a 16GB download of over 10,000 sounds from the sonic gurus at AIR Music Technology, SONiVOX, and Toolroom Records. In all you get nine plug-ins covering a wide range of styles, making the Advance 25 keyboard controller a complete performance solution right out of the box.

I don't get the last part, if a major selling point of the controller is that it can control my VST's, why does it need to be a complete solution right out of the box. I already got the VSTs, I don't need more.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:19 pm

Yeiiii super excited to use the advance keyboards...

...And their 8 encoders which will provide me endless hours of surfing banks!

I am amazed how manufacturers keep pushing this controllers with so few controls and layouts that are totally unintuitive for controlling software instruments, and they still invest in the R&D for the integration, what a waste of money.

Midi learn from plug ins would be enough if controllers provided a good number of controls and a good layout.

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:23 pm

Maybe the controller could have been cheaper if it wasn't bundled with so much software?

This is frustrating because many of us bought Air and Sonivox plugins in the past or around last Christmas. I already have all of those instruments. They should have models with and without plugins, this way they have better chance to sell it to those who already have software part of it. There is no way I would put $600 for 61 keys controller if I already have all the software. Other option would be to have different software packages (they say- other titles will be available for purchase).

I have the same problem with Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol. If you but Kontrol, they planning to give Massive and several other instruments with it for free. Yet- they can not figure out how to give discount to those who, for example, own Komplete 10 Ultimate. I would like to but Kontrol for my Komplete 10 Ultimate, but there is no discount. What in the world? Makes no sense.

I am about to go to NI forums to complain

You should come too.

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:27 pm

Software included in this deals has really no value for the manufacturer, they are using the software to add value and attract costumers, but its the hardware which has large margins.

stikygum · Post by **stikygum** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:38 pm

Ah yes, I wish it would be cheaper and not include all the AIR stuff. I don't need that either. For the record, I'm buying Omnisphere 2. But I want to buy the Akai Advance to control all my soft synths. I feel like this is going to open up a whole new world of interacting with my soft synths. The selling points of the hardware is that it has a really nice keybed with aftertouch, big chunky knobs, some nice illuminated pads, but also that gorgeous big color screen.

loachm, thanks for suggesting the Nektar P1. I like the Akai Advance more than their P4/P6, but the P1 could be a good partner to the Akai Advance. These 2 products seem like they have different strengths. The P1 seems like it's mostly for having hands on control of your DAW. Yeah it has some VST control too, but their website talks about setting up any templates you want for your synths. I don't want to do that. The Akai Advance has the mappings out of the box. I'll have to look at the list of VSTs that the P1 can control, but seems like the Akai Advance is more geared towards VSTs than DAW, which is what I'm mainly interested in.

...Though, I just started watching some P4 videos and seems it can control more VSTs than I initially thought.

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:40 pm

I dont know how they got Air product- if they licensed it or bought certain number of copies- probably the same model as brand computers (Dell, HP) and Microsoft software. But if you like to buy computer without OS, it is often cost less. OS cost roughly $100 and you can count that without OS you will buy your hardware about $100 cheaper.

Such marketing technique actually backfires, because there is a good chance I would buy hardware keyboard controller 61 key at $500 without software. But now that they trying to sale me what I already have and would not give any credit or option to buy without- I will not take any of it.

stikygum · Post by **stikygum** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:45 pm

Wonder if you could sell the AIR licenses if you didn't want them.

Astralv wrote:
I am about to go to NI forums to complain You should come too.

I would, but I don't like Native Instruments. I don't like their business model. They seem like they are trying to gain a monopoly over the software world. Their Kontrol keyboards only control NI stuff

Everything they do centers around their Kontakt and Reaktor tools. I enjoy neither concept. Yeah they can produce some pretty good sounds, but I don't like their interface/integration methods. Whoa, anyways, back to these great new controls from Akai (and Nektar).

rod_zero · Post by **rod_zero** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:46 pm

Astralv wrote:I dont know how they got Air product- if they licensed it or bought certain number of copies- probably the same model as brand computers (Dell, HP) and Microsoft software. But if you like to buy computer without OS, it is often cost less. OS cost roughly $100 and you can count that without OS you will buy your hardware about $100 cheaper.

Such marketing technique actually backfires, because there is a good chance I would buy hardware keyboard controller 61 key at $500 without software. But now that they trying to sale me what I already have and would not give any credit or option to buy without- I will not take any of it.

Akai is owned by Inmusic Corp which also owns Air.

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:51 pm

Akai is owned by Inmusic Corp which also owns Air.

Oh, that's right, so is Alesis, I think. Forgot about that. Now that explains the bundle. So they did know they will give it for free with hardware and did not warn us. Now I definitely not buying hardware until they make software free discount or credit. This should not be hard if they already had my money. All I need is upgrade to hardware version.

But I want to buy the Akai Advance to control all my soft synths. I feel like this is going to open up a whole new world of interacting with my soft synths. The selling points of the hardware is that it has a really nice keybed with aftertouch, big chunky knobs, some nice illuminated pads, but also that gorgeous big color screen.

The only thing that makes it control your plugins is VIP. Any other keyboard with knobs and pads can do the same thing if you install VIP. I have a feeling- in a while they will make it free download or will sell VIP separately from controller. Also watching videos, I did not see clear demo of how it works. Sounds like a promise with potential but not real functionality. Why is there no straightforward list of plugins VSTs or DAWS that it can control? Does it needs to have a map for all the knobs? If so- would you need to lead each map? For example ReFX Nexus has no MIDI Learn function. Their controllers not the same as many of my hardware controllers. How do I know- I will be able to control it?

I do not buy in to exciting promises. Give me a list of plugins that will be already mapped, and I will think of it. At least Kontrol only claims it will control Kontact libraries and not "all plugins". I dont see how they can control all plugins. There should be good explanation.

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:53 pm

nope. i'm fine with my T2 built like a tank master kb and controlling vst's with the mouse

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:58 pm

Layzer, I am with you. The only thing I could never master XY Pad. I can control it with mouse fine, but how do you record knobs movement or XY pad movement?

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:14 pm

stikygum wrote:loachm, thanks for suggesting the Nektar P1. I like the Akai Advance more than their P4/P6, but the P1 could be a good partner to the Akai Advance. These 2 products seem like they have different strengths. The P1 seems like it's mostly for having hands on control of your DAW. Yeah it has some VST control too, but their website talks about setting up any templates you want for your synths. I don't want to do that. The Akai Advance has the mappings out of the box. I'll have to look at the list of VSTs that the P1 can control, but seems like the Akai Advance is more geared towards VSTs than DAW, which is what I'm mainly interested in.

...Though, I just started watching some P4 videos and seems it can control more VSTs than I initially thought.

...in the video the Nektar specialist talks about that they have about 600 plug-ins mapped manually, so I guess, the info on their website is informing about the current state and not the upcoming update, which is shown in the video. The parts in the video I found most interesting are from 5:50-8:00 min. If all of this works like it's told, for me it seems to be more effective than the other products, as I suppose it offers a better workflow for both the plug-ins and the supported DAWs. It doesn't offer a preset manager, which is no big deal for me, as I found all preset managers I have used more and more disappointing gradually. Either their system was unsufficient or the tagging of the presets has been done poorly. I mostly design my own sounds, so I create my own banks and when I have a third-party preset bank I go through it and save the best ones to a favourites folder. But that's just my personal experience - up to now to me these systems, at least in this regard, have just been a big pile of marketing bs for me and I'm sceptical, that the Advanced system will be an exception. The same could be with the Nektar system, but to me the guy in the video does a very good job and is inspiring confidence. I'll wait and see...

stikygum · Post by **stikygum** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:23 pm

The Nektar website has their list of VSTs and FX plugins on there, but it seems their aren't the VSTs I want. Most are FX plugins, which I'm not as interested in. Which would make Akai Advance more attractive because I've already seen some plugins I have it controls. Here's the VST list on Nektar's site if anyone is interested: http://www.nektartech.com/s.nl/ctype.KB ... ategory=20 Not a lot imo. Here's the FX list (a ton in there): http://www.nektartech.com/s.nl/ctype.KB ... ategory=20 But I would buy the P1 for DAW integration anyways.

No matter if VIP is the only thing controlling the VSTs, it's doing it and seems to do it well. I agree their should be a list available of the VSTs supported, but hopefully we'll see that soon.

Astralv, what do you mean you haven't seen a video of how Advance works? I've seen plenty of videos that show what it does.

The actual hardware looks top notch too. I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. Novation SL controllers cost at least this much when they came out. This is a typical price range. Difference is Akai actually has a lot of this sh!t mapped out, instead of giving you a small list and saying 'you can make your own mappings'. If you like to spend hours doing that, go ahead. But Akai spending the time to do it, so you can get down to business and create songs is a huge plus.

Anyone excited to control their VSTs with Akai Advance?