FL Studio 12 Released!

[tony tony chopper]

Not sure why you're overcomplicating this, gol. Timesig is one thing. Snapping is another. Timesig is a relevant part of MIDI and notation. Snapping has no relation to those things - it's a different kind of helper for humans. Timesig is related to song meter and the way metronome is supposed to count out, snapping is ONLY related to note input and some editing operations (and just that!).

Hence, one should not be inseparably linked to each other. As mentioned, most (if not all) other DAWs can set timesig to one value, and snap grip to another!

are you -really- saying that it's all about the metronome, and just that?
(considering that FL has no part where classical "notation" is involved)

How is the denumerator affecting the metronome, btw?

[lfm]

Have yet to see a daw with a proper metronome where settings can be the same on tempo as a clicktrack for drummer.

[tony tony chopper]

This is also misinformed nonsense. Try writing a the key signature on a staff (i.e. musical notation) for Eb using sharps. It's not possible. You can't have both a D and a D# notated in the key signature - how would you do that when you only have one line for D? That's why you need an Eb. You need one occurrence of each note named A-G, not 2 Ds and no Es.

hum.. WHY do you only have "one line for D" - if that's not pure masochism? Yes, that's what I'm saying, classic musical notation IS by itself masochistic, at least today.
Present, to someone who's new to music, a simple piano roll (which too is a pretty old concept) and a music score, what is he more likely to understand, and most importantly, how is the piano roll limiting it, that he would have to learn how to write on a music score?

Just wondering, how is music made in an software/piano roll that has no differenciation between those? Either music CAN be made very easily without them, and then it's indeed masochism to introduce them, OR there's music that can't without them, or it simplifies it.

..but I don't see how that is a simplification, and wikipedia's article makes it sound even worse than I thought:

"Double sharps also exist; these are denoted by the symbol double sharp and raise a note by two semitones, or one whole tone. Less often (in for instance microtonal music notation) one will encounter half, or three-quarter,About this sound Play (help·info) or otherwise modified, sharps"

I mean, WTF?

Even the concept of 12 semitones/octave is already wrongly "taught", like "it's like that, it's for historical reasons or magic, don't try to understand", while things get easily once you understand that this 1/12 octave subdivision, with black & white differenciation, is there for purely MATHEMATICAL reasons, and simple ones (basic fractions defining harmonies) on top of it.


I'm glad that some modern sequencers free you of all this - and it's not like there wasn't dedicated sequencers for traditional musicians, anyway.
If History was the only excuse for all this mess, ok, but it doesn't change that there's a simpler way to understand this.


Before I had posted, I tried to find what the difference was between sharp & flats btw, and the answer wasn't the one you described.
To the question "what is the difference between sharp notes & flat notes?", the answer was "Actually it depends on the instrument. Some instruments can produce different notes for A# and Bb, others can not."
And why not? Sounds plausible. But then, if it's about microtuning, it's still making things more complex than they can be today.

[trimph1]

The music, which was supposedly sound first, is now something written...hence for the eye.

Everything is now centered on the EYE!!!!

Have fun with polyrhythms sometime....or no rhythm at all.

[tony tony chopper]

THIS is exactly why plugin managing needs to be fixed. The old alphabetical list and the simple "rescan" feature need to come back.

& what is the new list, if not alphabetical?

[tony tony chopper]

The music, which was supposedly sound first, is now something written...hence for the eye.

I don't know, recent music genres are more about sound.
Would be funny to see dubstep written on a score sheet.

[EvilDragon]

are you -really- saying that it's all about the metronome, and just that?
(considering that FL has no part where classical "notation" is involved)

How is the denumerator affecting the metronome, btw?

Changing the denumerator will change the duration of notes being played.

Imagine a 4/4 metronome click at 120 BPM - it will play 4 quarter notes, as you'd expect. If in the next bar you change the time signature to 4/2, for example (leave the tempo at 120 BPM), the metronome is supposed to play 4 half notes, so, in effect, it's twice slower.

But it's not JUST about the metronome. It definitely influences how grid is supposed to be laid out, which is important for your playlist view and piano roll.

[Maadfoo]

Maybe you could do some kind of sketch with screenshot to make it more obvious

[tony tony chopper]

Changing the denumerator will change the duration of notes being played.

yeah, but I still don't know what a note is.
I assume that a note is not a bar, right? That would be too simple to be true.

the metronome is supposed to play 4 half notes

I've always thought a metronome was supposed to play beats

It definitely influences how grid is supposed to be laid out

didn't you just say it was NOT?

But let's say it now DOES. And let's say you have a 4/4 timesig, but you set your grid to show 8 subdivisions per beat, instead of 4. How does that grid differ from 4/8?
And really, the reason I was assuming that the -denumerator- was not a problem because it was just a matter of changing the snap, is because that's what I was told by the people I work with who are musicians.

[maruks]

last stupid comment from me here

that the triplet snap is actually good for mixing a walz with dance was actually in my mind, but it's weird how unaware i was of it

maybe a triplet snap mode with extra walz lines would be good, if it's just about the 3 and not 5, and 7 and so (i've no idea)



anyway, i do just edm, and i'm IL fan

[trimph1]

The music, which was supposedly sound first, is now something written...hence for the eye.

I don't know, recent music genres are more about sound.
Would be funny to see dubstep written on a score sheet.

I think it could be done but not in the traditional sense...

[EvilDragon]

yeah, but I still don't know what a note is.
I assume that a note is not a bar, right? That would be too simple to be true.

A note is an event, defined as a duration between MIDI note on and note off.

Simplistically, let's convert what metronome is supposed to be doing to a step sequencer pattern in FL with 16 steps is laid out like this:

X _ _ _ X _ _ _ X _ _ _ X _ _ _

Each X is a note. _ is empty step (not played). When you play this, you get sound out on every quarter note (as defined by timesig).

Now, changing the time signature to 4/2, that same pattern (with the same number of steps per beat - this is important!) would look like this:

X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ X _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _


That's what changing the denominator is supposed to do to the metronome.

I've always thought a metronome was supposed to play beats

Well, it plays a note that's on the beat, yeah. "Beat" doesn't produce a sound - that word is used as a measurement unit (like centimeters, liters, etc.). Notes produce sound, on the other hand - they're the actual events.

didn't you just say it was NOT?

But let's say it now DOES. And let's say you have a 4/4 timesig, but you set your grid to show 8 subdivisions per beat, instead of 4. How does that grid differ from 4/8?
And really, the reason I was assuming that the -denumerator- was not a problem because it was just a matter of changing the snap, is because that's what I was told by the people I work with who are musicians.

The difference is when you change grid to 8 subdivisions per beat, at 4/4, you basically get two bars of 4/8, within the original duration of the 4/4 bar.

So, going from basic 4/4, if you change timesig to 4/8, what used to be one bar of 4/4 is now TWO bars of 4/8. If you change to 4/2, what used to be one bar of 4/4 is now HALF of a bar in 4/2.

[tony tony chopper]

I've always thought a metronome was supposed to play beats

Well, it plays a note that's on the beat, yeah. "Beat" doesn't produce a sound - that word is used as a measurement unit (like centimeters, liters, etc.). Notes produce sound, on the other hand - they're the actual events.

you're not saying that a note is always 4 beats, are you?

[robotmonkey]

I've always thought a metronome was supposed to play beats

Well, it plays a note that's on the beat, yeah. "Beat" doesn't produce a sound - that word is used as a measurement unit (like centimeters, liters, etc.). Notes produce sound, on the other hand - they're the actual events.

you're not saying that a note is always 4 beats, are you?

[camsr]

I agree with EvilDragon. The solution would be to add some kind of note length scaling function when changing sequencer step division.
Everyone must know by now that FL was and IS a step sequencer. But the idea of having better time signature support is more than welcome.