Conversation: Freezing Tracks "workaround"

[LYTZ]

*IF* Freeze, then please the Tracktion way. (Freeze Point Module, put it wherever you want in the signal chain, everything before is freezed, everything afterwards can still be edited, inserted and changed.)
Thats the best and most flexible way, *if* there must be a freeze function in the first place.

And indeed, ability of freezing and unfreezing quickly is useful on a day-to-day basis,
whoever says otherwise never worked in a professional enviroment. There is a huuuuge time difference between freezing and rendering/reinstanciating stuff. There is just no comparison to be made here.
I really do not want to explain why that is. I shouldn't have to.

However it is just a convenience feature, not a must have. Especially not in the beginners department.
More advanced or professional people can barely go without it. That has to do with size of projects, speed of workflow and complexity of signal chains. Thats all I will say about this.

Also it will help you nil, when you do not have PDC guys. (PDC = Plugin Delay Compensation)
Big VSTi Instruments with complex signal chains, thats when you want freeze in the first place, but then you will naturally have delay in the higher millisecond department and then you MUST have PDC
or the freeze function will make no sense, because, well, your timing will be off and you can't do nothing about it, because *freeze*.

Again, to sum it up: *if* this happens at some point, then it should go one step further than most of the others (Most Freeze implementation in DAWS are still the same like nearly a decade ago) and do it at a minimum level like Tracktion does it, which is the very very very best right now.

(On a side note: Studio One comes second for sure since their Audio Transform Implementation in 2.5.
Here even Multi-Output Instruments can be converted to Audio and back with one command. Thats mature. V3 was released yesterday night by the way.)

But PDC must come before freeze, or a freeze option doenst make no sense at all.
That should be crystalclear.

[Taron]

That sounds like a whole different concept and application of freeze, having sections in time frozen. Rather than trying to relieve processing load, this seems more like a "locking" mechanism. Very interesting, though!

As with all "professional" environments, there are all sorts of different approaches and belittling one for another doesn't exactly seem necessary to me. I come from the visual effects world and I've always been one of those rare generalists, who could pull of pretty much anything in the most "unorthodox" ways, but faster and at higher quality than many studios at the time. I've done entire shots for big movies such as "Syriana", "Ghost Rider"(well that was a partial) as well as entire themepark projections like Seaworld San Diego's Manta Tunnel and Mermaids for Macau, just from home on my humble machine back then. (ok, I'm done tooting my own horn!)

Thus, I'd be careful with throwing around qualifications as to what it takes to be professional and how anyone, who says otherwise can't be taken seriously. But it's not like I don't understand your point. Just knowing that there are industry people, who would demand such features is a very valuable information for Jo! I'd only suggest to leave the weight of your information in its content and not boost it with superfluous claims. Ok, ok, we all do it... ...but somehow that just went straight against my grains, haha.

I believe that MuLab still needs a number of improvements to truly appeal to professionals, especially in the engineering department, but I also can see quite clearly that it has the potential to show tremendous innovations to the whole music world, which they will come to consider vital to a professional production!

If anything, seems to me this is a pretty good conversation and I already apologize, if I've been a little defensive there for all those "unprofessionals", including myself. Again, your information there is really interesting, but also very scary in terms of complicated implementation. Thankfully it's not on my plate, haha...
But, yeah, thanks, LYTZ, really, forgive me, too, I just want to stand up for us "little guys".

[LYTZ]

That sounds like a whole different concept and application of freeze, having sections in time frozen. Rather than trying to relieve processing load, this seems more like a "locking" mechanism. Very interesting, though!

Not a whole different concept. That is the freeze concept. You have no idea what freeze options in other DAW are supposed to do in the first place it seems, like I have expected.

Thus, I'd be careful with throwing around qualifications as to what it takes to be professional and how anyone, who says otherwise can't be taken seriously.

I dont have to be careful as I consider myself qualified in every point, aspect and meaning of the word professional since over a decade. Know a lot of professionals as well. That qualifies.

But, yeah, thanks, LYTZ, really, forgive me, too, I just want to stand up for us "little guys".

It's okay bro, this is why I didnt want to explain stuff in the first place and won't do so again, because
I am getting tired pretty quickly with explaining stuff that spark responses like this.
When you take offense in plain explanations of pro level production logic
I cant help you or anybody else. Then gain, thats what I expected.

Wont happen again, I promise.

[Taron]

Ah fer christ...what's with the temper (goes for myself, too). It's fantastic that you're a pro of that caliber, really! I'm so very sorry to have angered you like that. I think it's particularly awesome that you care about MuLab like that, too, being that you are such a successful celebrity, honestly. If I had known, I would've bowed to you in humble silence, I promise.
I, too, have to learn to take a little smack every now and then, like now for example. Being a pro doesn't protect anyone from having no impulse control, I know that. I hope you did read more than what has offended you, though. Especially the part where I'm excited myself and for MuLab's development that you share such information!

I screw up quite frequently here on this forum as of late. But apparently only right here on the MuTools section, because somehow out there the attitudes seem a wee bit more moderate. I find this inspiring and should do a better job to inspire generally a more relaxed approach to exchanging ideas and knowledge here, too.

That being said, you are absolutely right, I'm not a professional musician, as I already said, nor have I ever frozen a track in any DAW and am totally not qualified to talk about this. I only recognized the use of it and wanted to give people, who care for testing MuLab RIGHT NOW a little chance to see that there is a way to do something similar already and to let this topic become a conversation.
Thanks for contributing to it for sure! And PLEASE don't stop!

[bibz1st]

Cmon guys, lets not argue (again) we're all on the same side here

[mutools]

*IF* Freeze, then please the Tracktion way. (Freeze Point Module, put it wherever you want in the signal chain, everything before is freezed, everything afterwards can still be edited, inserted and changed.) Thats the best and most flexible way.

Yes also thinking that way.

However it is just a convenience feature, not a must have. Especially not in the beginners department. More advanced or professional people can barely go without it. That has to do with size of projects, speed of workflow and complexity of signal chains.

True point, thx for highlighting this.

Also it will help you nil, when you do not have PDC guys. (PDC = Plugin Delay Compensation)
Big VSTi Instruments with complex signal chains, thats when you want freeze in the first place, but then you will naturally have delay in the higher millisecond department and then you MUST have PDC
or the freeze function will make no sense.

I don't agree here. I think PDC and Freeze are separate features. You can have big projects with serious CPU needs without having a single 'delayed' plug.