KVR Audio

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:49 pm

I often found that american series the actors have real closeup sound to it, even when standing in open spaces etc.

Sound almost like they have mikes down the throats of actors, no ambience kind of.

Or are these scenes dubbed with modern technology of stretching and lining audio up?

From the scene, outdoor even, it seems impossible to capture each actors voice so accurately without more ambience.

Or is it just darn skilled audio crews with mike poles above the scene.

Thanks.
EDIT: spellcheck title

RichieWitch · Post by **RichieWitch** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:02 pm

I believe, the conversations, and all other sounds in the movie, are dubbed in after the filming. The actors reenact their performances while watching pre-production copies of their parts of the film. None of the sound from the actual filming is used--it is only there for reference purposes when the sound is redone.

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:07 pm

They dub it later ...

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:23 pm

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:03 pm

Thanks guys, so it is dubbing.

When dubbed to different language it's obvious lip sync does not exist, but this is really accurate.
Incredible job.

Bobbotov · Post by **Bobbotov** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:12 pm

It is called looping. A segment of the speech is looped to play repeatedly. An actor watches the image repeatedly while listening to the original production track on headphones as a guide. The actor then re-performs each line to match the wording and lip movements. Actors vary in their ability to achieve sync and to recapture the emotional tone of their performance. It is a time consuming process but the only effective way to get a decent, noise free recording. It has been used for films forever. If you see clips of actors outside and boom mics being used it is only to capture the initial dialogue for looping later.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:54 am

It's not ALWAYS looping/ADR. Actors hate doing ADR because the original performance is often superior and they'd rather be doing something more productive than repeating their own performances again. The most likely time to use it is in a noisy environment or when a boom mic is impractical (or the original audio gets messed up for any other reason). It's great for maintaining perfect levels... but...

...it sounds fake. The lack of proper ambience is annoying (yes, i notice)... and they have to mix in false ambience sounds in post to make everything fit together. Some is done well enough that I don't notice, but it often gets my attention. Just like lighting (I'm constantly bothered by things like fill lights, darkness that isn't darkness, etc).

It reminds me of how artificial a drum kit sounds when every piece is perfectly but separately microphoned and mixed piece by piece. One reason BFD rocks is the overhead and ambience microphone mixes that help with this (some producers/engineers use this to great effect with live kits as well, and they tend to be productions I enjoy more, so long as it was done well).

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:56 am

... and now I'm thinking about the fake ambience, which is making me remember how much I hate most foley artists...

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:53 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:It's not ALWAYS looping/ADR. Actors hate doing ADR because the original performance is often superior and they'd rather be doing something more productive than repeating their own performances again.

Thats definitely true. Its not just the actor's choice, though. For anything where the actors' face is likely to be predominant in the shot, Im pretty sure the director wouldnt be that happy doing it either. Longer shots it matters less, which is handy, because really that's where it might be harder to boom anyway.

The most likely time to use it is in a noisy environment or when a boom mic is impractical (or the original audio gets messed up for any other reason). It's great for maintaining perfect levels... but...

Well, in situations where a boom is impractical, there are alternatives, like lavs and plant mics.

...it sounds fake. The lack of proper ambience is annoying (yes, i notice)... and they have to mix in false ambience sounds in post to make everything fit together.

Well, the problem with that is that they will be doing that anyway. The reason they're using close micing on booms is so that they're not recording the on-set ambience.
Because the set generally isnt in that jungle, city, factory, manorhouse etc, and even if it were, the sound designer(*) and his team probably have their own ideas about how those things should sound for the purpose of the film. Notwithstanding the sounds of a filmcrew as part of the 'actual' ambience at that point in time.

(*) original definition, as in 'set designer'

... and now I'm thinking about the fake ambience, which is making me remember how much I hate most foley artists...

Seriously? What did they ever do to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OONaPcZ4EAs

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:29 am

Lapel mics could have also been used. Although they can be prone to picking up noise generated by movement of actors clothing.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:17 am

thecontrolcentre wrote:They dub it later ...

Yes. In a movie like Cast Away, the majority of the sound is post-filming AFAIK.

arkmabat · Post by **arkmabat** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:18 am

Foley is awesome and a part of the KVR database. Don't knock it.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:31 am

My problem with foley artists are mostly in television, but also in film.

1. That object clearly doesn't make that sound (stock sound effects, "fad" sound effects, variously other inappropriate choices, etc).

2. That sound clearly is the wrong execution of the right sound for that particular action/use of an object that is making noise (e.g.: That door clearly didn't close/latch, so don't foley a door close sound, or too little or too much force used in the foley vs the actual visible event, etc).

3. The person on screen is supposed to be sneaking, so stop all that damned foley noise.

4. Inconsistency: That object should be making a sound while on screen AND OFF!! (most egregious in techno fantasy/scifi, with "beeping lights"). Also, distance and environment changes the volume and frequencies of sounds. Not everything sounds like it was recorded in a cement chamber or studio.

5. There was absolutely NO NEED for [thing/event] to have a sound on it (countless examples, such as beeping lights above).

6. GUN NOISES. For the love of Bob, guns generally aren't rattle-prone. They make noises when fired, reloaded, and cocked. And FFS, i know actors are shown cocking weapons repeatedly (which is stupid), but foley artists even put cocking sounds in when there's no visible cocking action! This is all over the place and it is some of the most egregious examples of BAD EFFING FOLEY.

And so on. i get the impression that foley artists get paid per sound inserted, and therefore put too many sounds in that aren't really appropriate. i'm sure there are good foley artists, whose work i don't notice (which is the point of natural sound). The ones i notice are the all too common shitty ones.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:37 pm

That's a rather broad generalization of the entire foley profession! Considering it is used in every film and TV show, don't you think that's a bit too general of a claim? That they all suck? You do get that films are works of fiction, and that everything in them is made up for the purpose of furthering a story, right? We aren't talking documentaries here. Why not criticize the fake lighting, or the fake action, or the fake makeup, or the fake blue aliens?

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:23 am

I have serious issues with the fake lighting, too.

Calling something a work of fiction doesn't justify or excuse breaking the continuous dream or disabling the viewer's suspension of disbelief with things that do not fit.

And if you reread the last part of my prior posting, you'll see I stated that I realize it's not EVERY foley artist I have an issue with. Just the ones who's work easily draws my attention.

Miking conversations on film - how is it done?