Tips for getting plucks thick and upfront?

[Kinh]

Anyone got any tips to get plucks to sit up in the mix and have that unique thick quality? Kinda like changing the strum time on a guitar vst. Ive tried a quick delay, also adding a fraction of a midi note before each note. Tried sharpening transients, also tried layering percussive sounds with tonal. Can get close but no cigar. All the producers are doing it now. Here's an example. Though Im after more an extreme version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqjVwAg5fK4

[MOK19]

That's a tough question to address, because it's very subjective. One route to troubleshooting this would be to hear a version of yours that you think is approaching your desired destination, and we can then find a difference between that and, say, the song you linked above.

But since you mention the word thick, then that's something concrete to go off. Thick implies some low frequencies, to me. So part of that comes down to composing a chord stab with the right notes, where you have sufficient upper frequency notes, a bottom note that has good bass, and perhaps enough in between the top and bottom to connect the two together. And if not that, then to make sure these lead stab chords and are not competing with other elements.

I don't think you necessarily need to resort to sharpened transients and layered percussion to get this, though it doesn't innately hurt. Seems to me that the bulk of the work will come in designing the synth patch, particularly in the positioning of the filter envelope and the makeup of the initial waveform(s).

Either way, seeing what your patch looks and sounds like will at least lead to more specific suggestions.

[Gamma-UT]

Frankly, I don't think it has much to do with the plucks being special at all - more to do with the way that the mix changes the emphasis on the vocals. The plucks dominate in the verse and there might even be a little sidechaining into Sia's vocals - this would make it easier to scoop out the mids on the pluck to make them sound quite bassy and still preserve the high of the pluck. Then in the chorus, Sia's voice comes forward and the synth changes, moves back a little and opens up in the mids.

Also, listen to the part with Fetty Wap, the EQing and resulting emphasis on the plucks is different and less upfront, probably because his voice has a lower register.

[Kinh]

Man, I am shocked no one, n-n-no one has any advice on this. I mean you gotsta be kiddin' me.

Most people that get on dese forums are into EDM, most are producer enthusiasts, yet no one has any opinions on how to mix plucks?! A staple in any EDM track?
Wow, I must be eff'n dreamin'.

[MOK19]

Indeed, you're dreaming. The problem is in your question. Making plucks is, as you say, a staple of modern music, and is easy. But the specific problem you're running into is not clear.

[Kinh]

Indeed, you're dreaming. The problem is in your question. Making plucks is, as you say, a staple of modern music, and is easy. But the specific problem you're running into is not clear.

Actually its very clear. You have a rather vivid description in words, you have all the things I have tried + you have a video of what Im referring to. How much clearer could I have made it?

[Zexila]

nvmnd

[TIMT]

you are definitely dreaming.because, all that is going on here is keytracking of a lowpass filter and offset between the notes.the key tracking places emphasis on the higher notes so you can hear the flamming between the top register which is more open and i suppose it "slaps"against the root note in the 1-2 octaves below which is a lot more dampened (like any string instrument)you can increase the separation of time intervals by messing round with early reflections aswell,even decrease it if you so wish so the timing between the notes becomes obscured and you don't have transients overlapping one another but they still sound uniform

Further more,though it shouldn't need pointing out,there's obviously an envelope attached to the lowpass filter

[ZentralmassivSound]

What imho helps making plucks sound "upfront", as if directly jumping from the speaker membranes, is to apply a good wide stereo effect. I use a chorus for this with maximum spread but only minimal and slow oscillation, so it's not perceived as a chorus but rather as a stereo widener. And be sure not to kill all the top end with the pluck filter envelope. Let it start from very high, perhaps reduce the bass by equing so more focus is put on the highs, which always sound more direct and crisp then. It's kind of a compromise between balls and crispness I think.

Cheers, Thorsten

[Kinh]

you are definitely dreaming.because, all that is going on here is keytracking of a lowpass filter and offset between the notes.the key tracking places emphasis on the higher notes so you can hear the flamming between the top register which is more open and i suppose it "slaps"against the root note in the 1-2 octaves below which is a lot more dampened (like any string instrument)you can increase the separation of time intervals by messing round with early reflections aswell,even decrease it if you so wish so the timing between the notes becomes obscured and you don't have transients overlapping one another but they still sound uniform

Further more,though it shouldn't need pointing out,there's obviously an envelope attached to the lowpass filter

Okay, so I had a crack at your recipe, but my cookies came out undercooked. Firstly, the keytracking as a source to the LF filter - I kinda know where you're going - to attenuate the lower notes. But where you say 'slaps against', that I find perplexing. A low pass alone cant make it slap back. I did try this and it wasn't enough.

The separation of the intervals, yes that's what I need to do I think but I dont know how to mess with early reflections.
So in Omnisphere I duplicated the preset into a multi, separated the 2, put one with a quick delay on it with the mix up full to try and emulate this, but didn't get the desired results. So how else can I separate intervals? Are you referring to performance/sound design or post-production? I dont know how or if you can for that matter change the start note in Omnisphere, but as I said that didn't really work anyway.

Are you certain through experience this can be achieved or are you guessing this is how they do it?

[NystagmusE]

Personally I disagree with alot of what's been said.
I think up front implies intelligeability and clarity which is accomplished by a combination of good sound design (synthesis) and decent EQ. Also the composition posted above is pretty minimal which helps to keep things clear during the minimalist parts.

Nobody can really teach you how to EQ over the internet.

[Kinh]

Personally I disagree with alot of what's been said.
I think up front implies intelligeability and clarity which is accomplished by a combination of good sound design (synthesis) and decent EQ. Also the composition posted above is pretty minimal which helps to keep things clear during the minimalist parts.

Nobody can really teach you how to EQ over the internet.

Actually there are several ways to learn how to EQ on the internet but that's not what this is about. I know how to EQ.

If you dont know how to do this (what I'm asking) then that's okay, but its' pretty pointless commenting just to say that. I posted this so people who do know their sh*t could share their tips. If that's not you then fine, either way looks like I'm sh*t out of luck cause no one on KVR seems to know anything about producing or mixing as all the comments here seemed to be theory based, not practical (and not just this thread, all of them).

Seems kvr is a forum that's geared towards amateur enthusiasts who are in the market for stuff.

Maybe I should just try another forum that specializes in production discussions by actual producers.

Thanks anyway...I guess.

[Touch The Universe]

Does this qualify?

https://soundcloud.com/touch_the_univer ... ad-pluck-2

[BDeep]

Entitled, was the word that I was looking for.

[Touch The Universe]

Entitled, was the word that I was looking for.

?