A VST Sampler like Roland's Variphrase Models
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 20 posts since 21 Feb, 2004
Hi, is there any VST instrument or sampler which can do what you can do with Roland's variphrase instruments like VP-9000 or V-Synth GT?
I've read that Kontakt and Alchemy can give similar results but I was wondering if there was a dedicated sampler/synth so I could get results without getting under the hood.
Thanks!
I've read that Kontakt and Alchemy can give similar results but I was wondering if there was a dedicated sampler/synth so I could get results without getting under the hood.
Thanks!
- KVRian
- 883 posts since 4 Jul, 2012 from Blue Crest, Eastern Europe
I've been interestd in the same topic for some time now and the all leads point to an unfortunate NO, not really.
You're better of getting the hardware.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... h-yet.html
You're better of getting the hardware.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... h-yet.html
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- KVRAF
- 1701 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
I would take a look at image-line Harmor
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 17 Mar, 2020
The search is over Serato Sample will do the job if not even better !
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 28 Nov, 2021
I cannot confirm, that Serato Sample can do the same like Variphrase in the V-Synth GT.Xcarnation wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:35 am The search is over Serato Sample will do the job if not even better !
Although you can play a sample on the MIDI keyboard chromatically and polyphonically, it always retriggers, if I press another key.
The typical polyphonic and legato-play of a sample in VariPhrase, where the pitch changes, but the sample doesn't retrigger - this is not possible with Serato Sample.
At least I could not find out how to do it. There is not button "legato" or "retrigger". Only a button for MIDI-keyboard.
Also, the time stretching is not formant compensated, for using vocal samples. In variphrase you could specify if your sample is a vocal sample.
Without formant compensation you get the typical 🐿 -effect. Which is not very nice.
That means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.
Now i check out Kontakt 6 "Tone machine". They are supposed to have a similar function and I already saw it in action. But the price is a little higher than Serato Sample.
But I need to do it.
Some thoughts on that?
Last edited by Burkeyboarder on Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 28 Nov, 2021
- KVRAF
- 14992 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
People make the VariPhrase technology to be some sort of magic, but I've always thought it sounded like a solid first try that needed improvement. Way back in the day I thought VirSyn's Poseidon was better at resynthesis and now other plugins like Icarus seem to be even better.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
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- KVRAF
- 1701 posts since 19 Apr, 2003 from Copenhagen, Denmark
You have full control over formants in harmor, so no chipmunk effectBurkeyboarder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:31 pmThis VST sounds and looks really nice. Vocal resynthesis is the basic theory of VariPhrase.
it's a crazy synth!
___The Jepptunes___
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
"Accept All the Good"
Sound design for SQ8L and Alchemy
- KVRAF
- 23102 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
Just FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...Burkeyboarder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:42 pmThat means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.
In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.
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- KVRist
- 198 posts since 21 Sep, 2020
Interesting detail about the algorithms used in V-synth and Kontakt. Thanks! Haven't seen those details publicly mentioned anywhere during all these years.EvilDragon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:35 pmJust FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...Burkeyboarder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:42 pmThat means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.
In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.
However, I have found the Time Machine Pro in Kontakt to be the best for Variphrase type sounds.
Use 'HQ mode' with 'Keep Formants' and 'Legato' enabled.
Time Machine 2 produces too much chipmunks.
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 28 Nov, 2021
How do you know that VariPhrase is not using additive resynthesis, like Image-Line Harmor? Where is proofed, that Roland uses that Pitch Synchronous Overlap and Add Algorithm?EvilDragon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:35 pmJust FYI... VariPhase is Roland's marketing term for PSOLA algorithm, which it basically is. This algorithm dates as far back as 1986...Burkeyboarder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:42 pmThat means: The 20 years old Variphrase and ElasticAudio technology made by Roland in 2000-2009 (VP-9000, VariOS, V-Synth, V-Synth GT) is still not exceeded or surpassed in terms of sound quality and in terms of usability.
In Kontakt, Time Machine 2 uses the PSOLA algorithm. Tone Machine is using granular synthesis instead, so it wouldn't at all match anything VariPhase/PSOLA is doing. Another thing you might take a look at is NI's FORM, which also uses the PSOLA algorithm, but in a much more interesting (and flexible) way.
Vocal Additive Resynthesis on Harmor gives the same sounding results as my V-Synth GT, right here beside me.
And according your statements about Kontakt Time Machine and Tone Machine, I wouldn’t bet your are right. Because I tested it and the Tone Machine of Kontakt 6 gives me the same sounding results like my V-Synth GT right here beside me.
Look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtEoB9SqUoI
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- KVRer
- 16 posts since 28 Nov, 2021
I purchased Harmor on hot deal for half the price and it’s really a great synth. I like the additive synthesis approach on vocal phrase samples.olepro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:34 amYou have full control over formants in harmor, so no chipmunk effectBurkeyboarder wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:31 pmThis VST sounds and looks really nice. Vocal resynthesis is the basic theory of VariPhrase.
it's a crazy synth!
It really sounds very close to my V-Synth GT, right here beside me.
- KVRAF
- 23102 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia
I know a thing or two about Kontakt's codebase. Tone Machine is using granular. TM2 is using PSOLA. I also have it confirmed with NI.
I think even Kontakt's manual mentions Tone Machine using granular synthesis. Look it up.
As for Variphase, https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... stcount=16
That said, PSOLA could also be considered a form of granular processing, in a way...
I think even Kontakt's manual mentions Tone Machine using granular synthesis. Look it up.
As for Variphase, https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph ... stcount=16
That said, PSOLA could also be considered a form of granular processing, in a way...
Last edited by EvilDragon on Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.