Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

[tieb]

I love keys

[Uncle E]

It is a hybrid approach so yes, better than just samples, but it is still sample based for the sound, the modelling seems to be related to things like sympathetic resonance and instrument behaviour.

Is the Kronos piano full physical modeling or is it hybrid? There's a digital piano out of Italy that is full physical modeling, I think.

[Michael L]

What about XLN's Addictive Keys?

A recent thread compared Pianoteq and Keys & the OP concluded they complement each other. I have A-Keys and like the wide range of piano/preset/FX combos.

[EvilDragon]

It is a hybrid approach so yes, better than just samples, but it is still sample based for the sound, the modelling seems to be related to things like sympathetic resonance and instrument behaviour.

Is the Kronos piano full physical modeling or is it hybrid? There's a digital piano out of Italy that is full physical modeling, I think.

Kronos is majorly sampling (each note full length without loops at 8 velocity switches) with just sympathetic and pedal resonance added on top as an option.

And you're talking about Viscount's Physis Piano. It's not bad, but it's not nearly at the level Pianoteq is, from what I've heard...

[Uncle E]

That doesn't surprise me. Actually, I'd be surprised if a hardware keyboard could match a plugin in terms of fully physical modeled piano, given the differences in available processing.

[aMUSEd]

Afaik Roland V-Piano is supposed to be pretty good

[Aryaroman]

The Pro (and upper?) versions of Imperfect Samples' pianos are very extensively sampled. I've heard good things about the german upright.

[EvilDragon]

Afaik Roland V-Piano is supposed to be pretty good

For the amount Roland wants for it it better be... then again it doesn't offer nearly the tweaking possibilities of Pianoteq (or all the additional models).

[realtrance]

Regarding physical modeling vs. sampling (it's always a vs. thing on the Internet, isn't it)...... all I'll say to those who like sampled sound better is, you'd be surprised how quickly your ear/brain system accustoms itself to a particular sonic spectrum.

After getting habituated to one thing, others sound "wrong."

I've witnessed this phenomenon for 30 years in sound reproduction. It's readily apparent if you skim thru a current forum site like headfi.org, where the debates are again endless over which earphone is superior to all others (easiest answer: the most expensive one! <g>).

Or, alternately, listen to Ignor Kipnis' recording of Mozart's piano music on a 1793 pianoforte, tuned to be historically accurate. It sounds like a honky-tonk to my ears, at first!

Interesting historical tidbit, Kipnis' 1793 Graebner was auctioned off five years after his death -- in 2007 -- for a mere $26,000 US!

http://bid.igavelauctions.com/Bidding.t ... id1=856079

Shows you how crazy the world has become since then.....

Ditto with various tunings, they change the perception of the instrument.

That's another really distinct thing about Pianoteq: if you like studying all the elements that go into the sound of a piano, and can enjoy playing around with them and their subtle (and not so subtle!) interactions, the tweaks on this software are very sophisticated and deep. Enough to keep a good synthesist happy.

Working with the parameters, and understanding what goes into the different models included, starts to give a sense of what a vast range of tonalities different pianos, from different manufacturers and periods of the instrument's history, there actually is. Half the fun of the software, for me at least.

[EvilDragon]

Well said!

[logburner]

The Pro (and upper?) versions of Imperfect Samples' pianos are very extensively sampled. I've heard good things about the german upright.

Except for the Extreme versions, they are not that extensively sampled (they just have about 10-14 layers of sustain and release samples) but they sound very realistic because the developer captured the tone of the pianos so well.

If Pianoteq or any other physical modelling piano could produce a piano tone as deep and realistic as Imperfect Samples pianos, I'd be happy to switch over it any day.

[Lotuzia]

Afaik Roland V-Piano is supposed to be pretty good

It is. I was lucky to play one that was properly biamped, and it was an immersive experience. Not totally like a real piano, but close, and very exciting.

I tried to like Pianoteq a lot of times, at least until version 4, but failed each time. Maybe I should try version 5, as I've finally recently heard decent examples of this version, and the plasticky vibe seems to be less present in the last version.

[electro]

Another consideration when judging PM vs Samples:

The sonic signature of the mic is also part of sampled libraries. The fairest comparisons will happen with an uncolored preamp and a neutral mic such as DPA.

[EvilDragon]

Well, not necessarily. Pianoteq offers microphone modeling as well, it's not just theoretically perfect omnidirectional mics as in v4...

[Klemperer]

Regarding physical modeling vs. sampling (it's always a vs. thing on the Internet, isn't it)...... all I'll say to those who like sampled sound better is, you'd be surprised how quickly your ear/brain system accustoms itself to a particular sonic spectrum.

Indeed. I always tell a very old story here, my great-grandmother owned (alas, I'll never will^^) a Bechstein grand and loved music. Yet in her days the sunday opera was broadcasted in funny ways, someone came with a machine, 3 or 4 headphones on it I was told, and the sound for a woman who played a wonderful expensive piano and went to local concerts (many cities had own orchestras, it was somehow not bad for musicians, not everything just "in Berlin" "in New York" "in Prague") - the sound must have been horrible.
Yet, after just 5 minutes... People were happy and enjoyed the sunday evening music extremely. Of course that example doesn't fit 100% as other devices did not sound "wrong" afterwards - but it is an example how mind and ear listen to sounds.

Or, alternately, listen to Ignor Kipnis' recording of Mozart's piano music on a 1793 pianoforte, tuned to be historically accurate. It sounds like a honky-tonk to my ears, at first!

That is why I love the Kremsegg instruments so much inside Pianoteq. I will never stop to change this, change that, (many times ending with a sound half as good as the presets we have, but well, one learns, and possibilities are endless) in pianoteq pro. Those Bechstein, Streicher, Erard, Frenzel, Broadwood and all, or the free instruments like Walter, Schöffstöss etc., - simply marvellous. Switching between time periods from harpsichords to newer grands. Outstanding.

It is true, and you describe it well, if one comes from say a Fazioli grand sampled piano like from Matt (imperfectsamples) or vice versa it is quite a difference - but as our ears can forget those bfhhhhhhss! and zzzzzzpfhhhs sjhiouuuuuusssssz! while listening to music, it is easy to get used to the special way pianoteq gets us, and work from there. I sometimes replace the inbuilt reverb with others like reverberate or the wonderful Valhalla reverbs, or combine them (with mixed success it has to be said^^, but that's me, not pianoteq^^)
Like EvilDragon said, the many different mic "emulations" from U87 to Ribbon to Shure to everything is again adding a lot. There might be no "best" piano, but I am happy since years with pianoteq. Owning the pro version makes it, if you like, an experimental tool also.