Placement of Tape Simulation in master channel + do you intentionally clip on Tape Simulation?

[musical_duck]

I'm working on some tracks consisting of solo piano, and my master channel is ordered as follows:

• EQ
• Reverb
• Tape Simulation
• Multiband Compressor
• Limiter

Edit: So apparently multiband compressor isn't ideal for piano.

Does this appear reasonable?

Question: Is it common to intentionally clip the sound when working with Tape Simulation? Is this desirable?
Answer: Generally, no, unless for some reason the sound of clipping suited the track

I'm just curious how to approach things when working with Tape Simulation.

[Par9 Zalpov]

clipping causes distortions, so if you need them you can try to clip. im personaly dont using clipping on master channel.

[musical_duck]

Thanks, yeah, normally I wouldn't let the sound clip (if I wasn't using tape simulation). I just wasn't sure if anyone did this intentionally with "tape simulation" to achieve harmonics / distortion effects.

Nice tracks/mixing on your SoundCloud, by the way. Listening to them now

[Par9 Zalpov]

Thanks, yeah, normally I wouldn't let the sound clip (if I wasn't using tape simulation). I just wasn't sure if anyone did this intentionally with "tape simulation" to achieve harmonics / distortion effects.

to achive harmonic saturation not necessary engage clipping. most tape simulators doing harmonic saturation without clipping also. clipping is a pretty "hard" and obvious effect , but if you think that clipping is good for that track, just use your ears decide to use. or use clipping as a creative effect.

Nice tracks/mixing on your SoundCloud, by the way. Listening to them now

thank you. glad to hear this

[spacekid]

Try different chains, here's something that I default to(more or less//some variation). For tubes I've been using X-Tube followed by Phil-L TubePreamp lately. Both with very minimal settings, back to back in a chain. Other than that, I think I'm using reverb after the second compressor(both light). And I put pyewacket on a send last night, which sounds really good mixed in. It's working with guitar, so it should work well with piano I suppose. Oh, I just saw where you wrote master channel. I would keep everything on the instrument channel except the things you plan on using on everything, or use a send for just a few tracks out of all of them.

-EQ
-*tube here either/or/both
-Compression(light)
-*tube here either/or/both
-Reverb
-TapeSim
-*more compression if needed

---limit on Master

[Turello]

Multiband Comp in a piano track?
Heresy... Try a broadband Comp...

[No_Use]

Multiband Comp in a piano track?
Heresy... Try a broadband Comp...

+1 (if needed to use a comp at all)

[musical_duck]

to achive harmonic saturation not necessary engage clipping. most tape simulators doing harmonic saturation without clipping also. clipping is a pretty "hard" and obvious effect , but if you think that clipping is good for that track, just use your ears decide to use. or use clipping as a creative effect.

Makes sense . I probably don't need to even be thinking about clipping then.

Try different chains, here's something that I default to(more or less//some variation). For tubes I've been using X-Tube followed by Phil-L TubePreamp lately. Both with very minimal settings, back to back in a chain. Other than that, I think I'm using reverb after the second compressor(both light). And I put pyewacket on a send last night, which sounds really good mixed in. It's working with guitar, so it should work well with piano I suppose. Oh, I just saw where you wrote master channel. I would keep everything on the instrument channel except the things you plan on using on everything, or use a send for just a few tracks out of all of them.

-EQ
-*tube here either/or/both
-Compression(light)
-*tube here either/or/both
-Reverb
-TapeSim
-*more compression if needed

---limit on Master

Nice! phi-L TubePreamp looks pretty cool, wonder how that'd sound on piano? Could be interesting for solo sections (applied only to the solo melody itself). I'm checking out pyewacket now.

Multiband Comp in a piano track?
Heresy... Try a broadband Comp...

+1 (if needed to use a comp at all)

I didn't realise using a Multiband Comp on piano was such a bad idea. Though, after turning it off, the dynamics of the piano probably do sound better.

I was using Maximus (Multiband Comp + Limiter) with a preset titled Transparent which, I guess, is supposed to preserve the dynamics as much as possible (I did tweak the preset slightly). I'll look into Broadband Compression - can't seem to find much info about it.

When it comes to mixing, I'm pretty much a beginner so I'm learning as I go.

[spacekid]

^ I keep Phil-L barely on(gain) and open up the tubes by turning everything in the graphic to the right a bit. It doesn't do much alone, but add X-Tube next to it, and it does.

[No_Use]

I'll look into Broadband Compression - can't seem to find much info about it.

Broadband compression is used here just to distinguish from multiband compression, meaning alternatively it's just called singleband compression or mostly just compression. And there are tons of tutorials covering it on YouTube etc.

[musical_duck]

@No_Use
Now I feel stupid. The term "broadband compression" all of a sudden makes sense when compared to "multiband compression".

@spacekid
Going to test out phi-L Tube Preamp and X-Tube now.
Edit: Wow, that actually gets a really organic sound! Has a really nice warmness to it.

[spacekid]

@No_Use
Now I feel stupid. The term "broadband compression" all of a sudden makes sense when compared to "multiband compression".

@spacekid
Going to test out phi-L Tube Preamp and X-Tube now.

^it's got a bit of a hum, that can be gated(phil-L). I didn't notice it when I used it to create a tube amp clean sound. Maybe because the real ones hum a bit also. But for other things, like lead guitar, I've taken phil-l out and just kept X Tube in. I'm using really low settings on both of them.

[musical_duck]

Yeah, it's working really nice with the piano

I edited my previous post to say it's sounding great, but didn't realise you had posted in the meantime.

Edit: Just attached a quick sound test demo with and without phi-L TubePreAmp + X-Tube. Had to set the output to 112 kbps otherwise it was bigger than the 256kb attachment limit. Will get a SoundCloud soon.

It's probably too low in volume and I should've levelled out both versions so they have the same output level.

Edit 2: Now demo is in later post.

[spacekid]

^You can bring it a little more forward if you want. Take the reverb mix down a bit, or use a smaller size room/or both. Take down the Tube pre and x-tube a bit(listen for the bass saturation/it may be a bit too much). Which brings to what will bring things back up - Try using a leveling amp. The cakewalk free is good if you turn the screw fully to the right and use it in limiting mode allowing for just a 2 to 3db reduction at most. It should level out your bass, where the saturation can get overwhelming.

[musical_duck]

@Spacekid:
I accidentally had taken off the Limiter but now I've placed it back on (so it shouldn't clip now).

- Slightly increased piano volume and EQ'd in more highs (maybe I could do this even more?)
- Reduced the reverb (is it still too much?)
- I haven't actually reduced the preAmp and X-Tube just yet because some of the distortion clipping on the previous versions was from not having the Limiter on. Though I will experimenting with reducing them now.

Demo

(that demo isn't actually what I'm working on, but something I did to show you the sound. I'm getting tired of hearing it now, but I'll keep using it just to be consistent )