How professional can a sound get with iOS alone?

[Perceptualization]

Most iPad music apps sound good via headphones until one routes them to a pair of monitors and then the reality starts sinking in. But I am a sucker for these cheap apps and I will continue buying them just so that I have something I can play with on the go. They're great for generating MIDI clips that can be transferred later to Logic or Cubasis. Some of the filters aren't half bad, such as Filtatron. The PPG synths are OK enough, and so is Nave.

The top-tier iOS synths are competitive sonically as long as we´re talking about 44,1/16 bit. Only limitation right now seems to be the voices, which are 8 or 10 at best, but that´s ok for me. Nave is great, in the VA category it´s Korgs Arp Odyssei and Moog Model 15, which are ironically not even available on desktop, and sound gigantic, especially the Odyssei.

Cubasis on the iPad is pretty nice, the MicroLogue Synth is unexpectedly awesome, creamy first tier VA.

As soon as the AUv3 plugin format really breaks through, there won´t be that much difference between desktop and iOS, apart from pure CPU-power, where laptops aren´t that great either. Right now i have the Klevgrand plugins like Korvpressor, the Bram Bos plugins etc and i don´t think there is any audible difference between iOS and desktop.

Don´t get fooled by the low price of the plugins, especially with the new AUv3 format it´s the same thing. Apple managed to create a flourishing eco system, with a lot of competition and attractive prices for apps. (Like it should be). Korg/Moog are releasing more or less exclusively for iOS, Korg just with the new iWavestation (which i bought and it´s amazing), so it seems to work out well for them economically.

Hello. So is the 44.1kHz limitation in part imposted by the apps because the DAC of an iOS is fixed at 44.1kHz?

[Perceptualization]

Hello,

I want to get into making music again, and I’ve been looking at this Spectra 32-Bit DAC Amp for an alternative for an amp for my headphones and speakers.

So far I'm working a pair of Sennheiser HD-650 headphones and an ASUS laptop and Reason from Reason from Propellerhead. I've got an iPad Air 2, and I've been looking at that Auxy.

What do you think? Would it even be necessary to be with have an amplifier anymore with this Spectra DAC attached to my iPad Air?

I found it here – http://bit.ly/Spectra-32-Bit-DAC-Amp

Thanks for help!

The processing power of the iPad is the limiting factor, so I doubt that we'll see a version of U-He's DIVA running on the iPad anytime soon - but there are currently plenty of superb apps that I would classify as professional with caveats - limitations on especially their polyphony versus their vst counterparts, for one.

All things Virsyn; Korg's reinvented-for-touchscreen ip; Sunrizer; Magellan & Galileo (Organ); Crudebyte's stuff; M3000 (Melotron); Arturia's Moog, SEM, & Sequential VS emus; Sugar Bytes' ported stuff; Cakewalks' Z3ta; Prop's Thor - it would be easy to go on and on - some of the amazing audio-production-centric apps available for the iPad (and the iPhone) don't have a counterpart on desktop - they're their own thing likely inspired by the touchscreen/extreme portability/constant availability of the iPad/iPhone .

Thanks Goldenanalog. Is there a place where I can learn to hear these differences? Are the differences from the lack of investment in the software apps themselves, with developers believing that the apps are just for practicing and developing ideas on-the-go, do you think?

[Perceptualization]

If you have still a headphone output
Anyway the headphone output sounds not good. The lighning port is the way to get the best out of iOS devices.
But the worst thing in iOS land is still why the hell are there still apps which needs that freaking i-tunes for sharing data...WTF! NO GO!!

Hello. So wouldn't Spectra solve this problem, by routing an iOS device's sound to a better sounding DAC for an audio line out?

[Perceptualization]

Cinebient is right - use the lightning port to get sound routed to monitors. There are several ways to do this, using apps such as musicio and studiomux connected to a server app on a Macbook or PC. From the computer you then go to your USB or Thunderbolt audio interface. Your iPad becomes the audio input source. No need to go via a DAW if you don't want to.

Hello. So wouldn't Spectra solve this problem, by routing an iOS device's sound to a better sounding DAC for an audio line out? Because I'm trying to confine my set-up to iPad, headphones and speakers. Mainly because of costs.

[Perceptualization]

Most iPad music apps sound good via headphones until one routes them to a pair of monitors and then the reality starts sinking in. But I am a sucker for these cheap apps and I will continue buying them just so that I have something I can play with on the go. They're great for generating MIDI clips that can be transferred later to Logic or Cubasis. Some of the filters aren't half bad, such as Filtatron. The PPG synths are OK enough, and so is Nave.

Do you think that the apps could improve to the point of sounding better? What is about this particular software has them sounding weaker aloud vs hardware like the TB-303. I'm just curious how such basic hardware back then sounded so good.

Thanks

I think they are starting to sound a lot better now. In the past developers had to work within the constraints of lower available RAM and slower chips, this necessitating shortcuts in the quality of samples used and how each app was coded. I was primarily refering to some of my apps bought three to four years ago and not the newer crop of apps from, e.g. Korg and Bram Bos. Older apps like Rebirth and iElectribe still sound terrible to my ears. Ditto Nanostudio if compared to the newer Cubasis 2.

Thanks. Do you know a source to be able to learn and compare such audio quality. I partly feel like I have to trust authoritative opinions to be able to know which direction to take with audio quality. So It'd be good to develop this skill.

[DayvanCowboy]

Hello. So is the 44.1kHz limitation in part imposted by the apps because the DAC of an iOS is fixed at 44.1kHz?/

Hey, iOS and the top DAWs supports higher resolution audio with an external audio interface, i just assume that iOS softsynths would get rekt at higher resolution due to lack of processing power. I have never tested it though, and could be wrong!

[goldenanalog]

In the case of Korg, as an example: I doubt that there are any 'hearable' differences, Perceptualization, between vsti & app - restrictions on available polyphony, and adaptations to run in a touchscreen-based environment, yes - but my suspicions are that the source audio material & core DSP in both is almost identical.

OK: Here's a prime example of a monster audio app that runs on the iPad, thats pretty deadly serious:

http://auriaapp.com/Products/auria

If you scroll through the specs, you'll see that Auria supports 24bit/96khz - that's not 32bit/384khz, by any means - but I think as iPads continue to scale up, Auria's specs will scale up as well.

I have & have used Auria - it was probably the first app that got me thinking about iPads in different & interesting ways - so especially in the case of the current iPad Pro, it's the form factor that can fool you, Perceptualization, into thinking that it's merely an enhanced media tool -

- truth is that there's a lot of processing power in there

[goldenanalog]

Interesting article:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/ ... 1459359591

'Can you replace your PC with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Absolutely. Is it the “ultimate” replacement? Absolutely not. The iPad is a different kind of computer—simpler, more versatile and portable than a laptop. A real laptop, however, can help you get traditional work done faster. For now.'

[Cinebient]

Interesting article:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/ ... 1459359591

'Can you replace your PC with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro? Absolutely. Is it the “ultimate” replacement? Absolutely not. The iPad is a different kind of computer—simpler, more versatile and portable than a laptop. A real laptop, however, can help you get traditional work done faster. For now.'

The most limiting factor for me is still the pure lack of a bigger screen and more RAM.
But i must say that i find the 12.9" iPad Pro very interesting. It even looks bigger compared to all the way too small 13" 16:9, 2-1 hybrids.
IOS is easier and faster to use for some things and vice versa. Neither can replace the other yet.
Can't be too long until the first iOS driven Terminator.....

[V0RT3X]

Thanks for the reply. I checked out the Apogee Duet. It's a bit pricey for my needs, as I'm just looking for audio out. But the quality looks to be the same -- both use Sabre-32 chip. I'm waiting to hear back about the price of the Spectra though.

So do you just work with your iPad Pro now?

Sorry for not replying sooner.

No I am sticking to my MacBook Pro for most of my serious production, but I do like using the iPad Pro for a sketchpad.

If I was on a budget and needed to record a band for creating a demo tape, I would probably spend the money on something like this. This is a Laptop free setup of course, so this is why I'd put the money into something like the quartet. (Note I edited this, and had a cheaper interface, but I changed this with a focus on quality here)

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Quartet ($1395.00)

iPad Recording App
http://auriaapp.com/Products/auria ($34.99)

Auria supports 3rd Party plugins to use for mixing. You can check the list here
https://s3.amazonaws.com/auria.store/do ... lugins.pdf


My choice of iPad (Bigger screen isn't necessary unless you want that, but it's nice when doing a bigger mix) The 256GB should be enough for a few projects.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iPadProGr256 ($999.00)

For portable Monitors I'd pick this.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PassStudio

Total cost of this minus taxes etc is $3028.99

A setup like this, along with a good set of microphonesThis is about as much as a brand new MacBook Pro when you buy all of this together, so that's something to consider.


BTW: I used Sweetwater for pricing because it was quick, you could shop around and find better prices elsewhere.

[DayvanCowboy]

I´m considering this interface, maybe it would be something for you too:

http://www.iconnectivity.com/products/a ... AUDIO4plus

It´s great for flexible routing setups with two iPads or one iPad and a PC/Mac.
Especially convincing is USB-Midi Host for sharing Midi-Controllers, and the fact that the iPad get´s charged by the interface..

[Perceptualization]

Thanks for the reply. I checked out the Apogee Duet. It's a bit pricey for my needs, as I'm just looking for audio out. But the quality looks to be the same -- both use Sabre-32 chip. I'm waiting to hear back about the price of the Spectra though.

So do you just work with your iPad Pro now?

Sorry for not replying sooner.

No I am sticking to my MacBook Pro for most of my serious production, but I do like using the iPad Pro for a sketchpad.

If I was on a budget and needed to record a band for creating a demo tape, I would probably spend the money on something like this. This is a Laptop free setup of course, so this is why I'd put the money into something like the quartet. (Note I edited this, and had a cheaper interface, but I changed this with a focus on quality here)

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Quartet ($1395.00)

iPad Recording App
http://auriaapp.com/Products/auria ($34.99)

Auria supports 3rd Party plugins to use for mixing. You can check the list here
https://s3.amazonaws.com/auria.store/do ... lugins.pdf


My choice of iPad (Bigger screen isn't necessary unless you want that, but it's nice when doing a bigger mix) The 256GB should be enough for a few projects.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/iPadProGr256 ($999.00)

For portable Monitors I'd pick this.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PassStudio

Total cost of this minus taxes etc is $3028.99

A setup like this, along with a good set of microphonesThis is about as much as a brand new MacBook Pro when you buy all of this together, so that's something to consider.


BTW: I used Sweetwater for pricing because it was quick, you could shop around and find better prices elsewhere.

Hi Vort3X. Thanks for the reply. It's helpful.

I suppose some of it depends on the genre of music? For the most people, I'm into acid house and techno. So for me it's trying to nail the basics with drum machines and 303 emulators.

Have you got any tips on learning mastering as well? Could it be learned with audio samples and this Spectra unit? Thanks

[DayvanCowboy]

I suppose some of it depends on the genre of music? For the most people, I'm into acid house and techno. So for me it's trying to nail the basics with drum machines and 303 emulators.

The Arturia BeatStep Pro Midi Sequencer is great for this. Drum patterns just emerge with that thing, and you got another sequencer for the bassline and another one for lead sounds all in one box. It´s just very musical and feels like an instrument. https://www.arturia.com/beatstep-pro/overview

And for drum synth sounds the best i´ve ever heard is from Bram Bos the Ruismaker and Ruismaker FM http://ruismaker.com

These plugins come without a sequencer and are perfect for use with the Arturia, you just have to reedit the Drum Seq. Midi Note/CC output.

[Wormhelmet]

From pc and focusrite 2i2 interface to twin behringer 12 channel mixers with 8 hardware synths including virus ti2, moog mother 32's x3, minibrute, blofeld, blue lantern modular, mv8800 sampler, gotharman little deformer 2 sampler, etc, to ipad air 2 running through a griffin dock

I hear no differences in audio quality other than the characteristics of specific gear, plugin, or softsynth. They all can have a unique quality. This is why I like different kinds of audio gear. It can all be used together as well.

I no longer use a pc, but will buy new laptop soon, new DAW, and one new controller so my son can get back into it with his korg minilogue as a piece of that as well.

I prefer my mv8800 for midi, but the air 2 has so many good apps and sound is competitive. Oddysei, synthbook running the AN1x softsynth, even Sunrizer, can compete with my hardware gear and keep a neck and neck running with my old vst favorites by Rob Pappen, z3ta+, discovery, Massive, etc.

I never ran Diva and no wish to use plugins that resource intensive. I like the hands on and sound of the hardware gear anyway. My ipad air 2 is mostly used as another sound module and sits well in a mix with everything else.

So how professional can iOS stuff sound - as professional as anything else.

Oddly enough some of my favorite hardware these days is my Soulsby Oddytron and SammichSID 8 bit synths. They can sound professional too, so all this hoopla about 64 bit oscillators with zero whatever bells and whistles is kinda funny to me.

I thnk people get lost in tech details and theoretical best sounds, specs, etc, and often times can be far from where the music is at. It highly depends on the musician and how gear or software is used.

Having the very best sounding audio quality does not make for having the ability to put sounds together in a musical way. All these things are just tools anyway and dependent on the craftsman to make it sound good or not.

[bungle]

Oddly enough some of my favorite hardware these days is my Soulsby Oddytron and SammichSID 8 bit synths. They can sound professional too, so all this hoopla about 64 bit oscillators with zero whatever bells and whistles is kinda funny to me.

SammichSID isn't 8bit, it has no bits, it's analogue lol