Ableton or Bitwig? Help!!

[J-909]

I am trying to decide which will be my next DAW for a live (and not so live) setup. My two candidates are Ableton Live and Bitwig Studio.

My plan is to use it with a Maschine Jam controller for launching clips and produce a full dense tracks, trance stuff.
My needs are around 25 instrument tracks, 10-15 audio tracks and 10 send FX. Each with an average of 3-5 inserts, some of them quite demanding (vocalsynth and similar, not to mention reverbs).

I've tried both demos but without saving my work I cannot have an advanced criteria. My main demands in order of preference are: efficient workflow (obsessed with that: panning view, zooming, moving around...), stability and routing options. My view so far:

Ableton Live: Definitely stable but I cannot work without mouse scrolling zoom, that just pisses me off. I cant stand the arrangement view, it seems like you dont work with actual events/clips. Live playing of clips is just what I need. Strong: stability and live performance. Weak (very weak for me): workflow.

Bitwig Studio: My dream-DAW in theory. Very good workflow (still missing zooming with ctrl-wheel but can work with middle click), perfect routing and perfect interaction between clip and arrangement views. Just love it, BUT I'm terribly afraid of spending time on bugs and loss of work, not to say finding out it cannot stand all my needs. It's more a matter of time than money (dedicating work on a daw and not getting results in the long run).

What are your views and experience on both daws? Which do you think will best fit me taking into account my preferences?

Edit with particular questions for Bitwig and Live users:
- Has it ever let you down at a critical point in your work?
- Has it ever made you lost all the work you did before? (for instance, suddenly the project doesn't open anymore, and doesn't open previous versions either)
- Has it made you get pissed off at some point and say "Why am I still using it?"? What was the reason?

[fluffy_little_something]

So, basically you already know you want Bitwig, but want confirmation that it is solid and not bug-ridden, right?

[J-909]

So, basically you already know you want Bitwig, but want confirmation that it is solid and not bug-ridden, right?

Basically..
Nah, seriously, I wonder if Ableton would be the move for me. Stability is far better as I've seen in other posts

[Septimon]

I can confirm that Live is rock solid. I can't even remember the last time i had a crash (years ago?)
What i don't really get from your request: If "Live playing of clips is just what you need" why don't you play your clips from the session view?

[Scotty]

What about the integration of Maschine Jam with Bitwig vs Ableton? I would think that this would be a major consideration given that this is your controller of choice.

I am trying to decide which will be my next DAW for a live (and not so live) setup. My two candidates are Ableton Live and Bitwig Studio.

My plan is to use it with a Maschine Jam controller for launching clips and produce a full dense tracks, trance stuff.
My needs are around 25 instrument tracks, 10-15 audio tracks and 10 send FX. Each with an average of 3-5 inserts, some of them quite demanding (vocalsynth and similar, not to mention reverbs).

I've tried both demos but without saving my work I cannot have an advanced criteria. My main demands in order of preference are: efficient workflow (obsessed with that: panning view, zooming, moving around...), stability and routing options. My view so far:

Ableton Live: Definitely stable but I cannot work without mouse scrolling zoom, that just pisses me off. I cant stand the arrangement view, it seems like you dont work with actual events/clips. Live playing of clips is just what I need. Strong: stability and live performance. Weak (very weak for me): workflow.

Bitwig Studio: My dream-DAW in theory. Very good workflow (still missing zooming with ctrl-wheel but can work with middle click), perfect routing and perfect interaction between clip and arrangement views. Just love it, BUT I'm terribly afraid of spending time on bugs and loss of work, not to say finding out it cannot stand all my needs. It's more a matter of time than money (dedicating work on a daw and not getting results in the long run).

What are your views and experience on both daws? Which do you think will best fit me taking into account my preferences?

[xbitz]

Bitwig Studio 1.3.15 is available for download on http://www.bitwig.com/en/download.html. Here is the list of changes:

NEW - Script for Maschine JAM controller.
etc.

We've teamed up with Native Instruments to create the most powerful and versatile Maschine JAM integration to date.

Key features are:
Clip and scene launching
Advanced sequencing capabilities
Mixing incl relative fine editing (via shift) and metering
Device parameter access
Vertical and horizontal scene layout

for more http://www.bitwig.com/en/16/Maschine-Ja ... ation.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZCEFNGDXg

personally I only miss the proper key zone handling in BWS (mention it because I'm also in trance ), so it not supports this type of synth stack layering


(from VPS Avenger)

if u can solve it somehow than BWS will be ok

[J-909]

What i don't really get from your request: If "Live playing of clips is just what you need" why don't you play your clips from the session view?

I mean playing clips and recording what I get. Is not really for live performances but for making a song itself, quick transitions and stuff like that. Pretty slow to make with traditional production.

[J-909]

[quote="Scotty"]What about the integration of Maschine Jam with Bitwig vs Ableton? I would think that this would be a major consideration given that this is your controller of choice.

Yeah mate, that is the point! My lack of decision appeared in the moment I received an email from NI saying there was a template-script for Bitwig. I had already decided to go for Live but that left me again undecided!

[J-909]

Bitwig Studio 1.3.15 is available for download on http://www.bitwig.com/en/download.html. Here is the list of changes:

NEW - Script for Maschine JAM controller.
etc.

We've teamed up with Native Instruments to create the most powerful and versatile Maschine JAM integration to date.

Key features are:
Clip and scene launching
Advanced sequencing capabilities
Mixing incl relative fine editing (via shift) and metering
Device parameter access
Vertical and horizontal scene layout

for more http://www.bitwig.com/en/16/Maschine-Ja ... ation.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZCEFNGDXg

personally I only miss the proper key zone handling in BWS (mention it because I'm also in trance ), so it not supports this type of synth stack layering


(from VPS Avenger)

if u can solve it somehow than BWS will be ok

Cheers mate, had already seen it, that's why I can't decide!
As for keyzone handling I basically use Falcon so I shall do it inside of it. I don't normally use that feature anyway

[Zexila]

So you are afraid of some hypothetical future things down the road about your "dream DAW" and because of that thinking to choose DAW you don't like that much right now instead, seems quite strange...

[liquidsound]

Live may be closer to v10 than Bitwig to v2
I would wait unless you are not capable of making music which seems unlikely since it sound like you know exactly your set up etc.

[llze]

Bitwig is stable here on my mac.
Stuff like layered editing, hybrid tracks, group handling, nested fx, plugin sandboxing and bounce in place is awesome! If you like that i would not look anywhere else.

[untimelyman]

If mouse scroll zoom is so essential you can use programs like XMouse Button Control or USB Overdrive to zoom with mouse wheel in any application and do much more. These are tiny programs which sit in the background and silently do their jobs.

[shonoob]

Live may be closer to v10 than Bitwig to v2
I would wait unless you are not capable of making music which seems unlikely since it sound like you know exactly your set up etc.

At the pace Bitwig has been going, 2.0 is another 10 years away.

They effectively haven't updated their DAW in about 1.5 years, only added API stuff, and its been on 1.3x for over 1.3 years now.

Bitwig still also feels like a beta DAW to me, the sound engine has been horrible for me, samples crack, constant audio-engine crashes, audio warp is horrible compared to Ableton. Dom has disregarded every suggestion saying otherwise, saying their "audio warping is fine, because he thinks it is". And he banned me from KVR for pointing out bugs in the DAW. There is also no 4-4 grid marking in the piano roll, no custom project file directories. The sampler in Bitwig is 1/2 that of Abletons Simpler.

I am fed up with BW at the current moment, they have no customer-business relationship. Their DAW development has completely stalled. Even though they are partnered with Microsoft, they haven't fixed numerous windows 10 bugs. Dom basically told me to F-off and live with it, then permabanned me without any explanation when I pointed out Windows 10 related bugs in the KVR forum. Months later, now tons of people are expressing the exact same initial problems I had.

Ableton on the other hand is professionally established, feels 'complete' when you use it.

Bitwig has gone from being over 300 euros 2 summers ago, to occasionally selling for around $100 in the KVR marketplace now the past couple months. At least if you snag it for a sale there, you won't be losing much... But their team, I swear I have no idea what they are thinking anymore, and their support (basically Dom), is the worst I've ever experienced. It is like they have given up. The last implementation to their DAW was cowbell (lol), well over a year ago. Their bug fixes are arbitrary, and they don't fix anything important.

If you are in it for stability and long-run established use, go with Ableton. Bitwig has years before they will be even close at this pace. Ableton is much more in-depth, and even easier to use once you develop workflow (Bitwig's sole strength) and learn the commands.

[liquidsound]

Live may be closer to v10 than Bitwig to v2
I would wait unless you are not capable of making music which seems unlikely since it sound like you know exactly your set up etc.

At the pace Bitwig has been going, 2.0 is another 10 years away.

They effectively haven't updated their DAW in about 1.5 years, only added API stuff, and its been on 1.3x for over 1.3 years now.

Bitwig still also feels like a beta DAW to me, the sound engine has been horrible for me, samples crack, constant audio-engine crashes, audio warp is horrible compared to Ableton. Dom has disregarded every suggestion saying otherwise, saying their "audio warping is fine, because he thinks it is". And he banned me from KVR for pointing out bugs in the DAW. There is also no 4-4 grid marking in the piano roll, no custom project file directories. The sampler in Bitwig is 1/2 that of Abletons Simpler.

I am fed up with BW at the current moment, they have no customer-business relationship. Their DAW development has completely stalled. Even though they are partnered with Microsoft, they haven't fixed numerous windows 10 bugs. Dom basically told me to F-off and live with it, then permabanned me without any explanation when I pointed out Windows 10 related bugs in the KVR forum. Months later, now tons of people are expressing the exact same initial problems I had.

Ableton on the other hand is professionally established, feels 'complete' when you use it.

Bitwig has gone from being over 300 euros 2 summers ago, to occasionally selling for around $100 in the KVR marketplace now the past couple months. At least if you snag it for a sale there, you won't be losing much... But their team, I swear I have no idea what they are thinking anymore, and their support (basically Dom), is the worst I've ever experienced. It is like they have given up. The last implementation to their DAW was cowbell (lol), well over a year ago. Their bug fixes are arbitrary, and they don't fix anything important.

If you are in it for stability and long-run established use, go with Ableton. Bitwig has years before they will be even close at this pace. Ableton is much more in-depth, and even easier to use once you develop workflow (Bitwig's sole strength) and learn the commands.

There you have it!
Ableton Live!
Live is very deep and if you need tutorials they are everywhere.
My only DAWs I use: MuLab and Live. Reason on occasions.

I agree with most of the above.