How do I improve my Compostions and Arrangements

[lobanov]

You can also recreate the music that you love.

This will teach you both about what they have done, as well as provide you with a better understanding of why you love it.

This might provide you with your best results, as it is highly subjective when defining what is "creating meaningful and sensible melodies."

By recreating passages and whole compositions that you consider to be meaningful and sensible, you'll be able to isolate the things that resonated with you personally to better understand how to better convey what you wish, in your own unique way.

Was considering thisapproach... then I felt guilty as its like cheating.. but then its all in the learning process.. maybe I am hard on myself.. but I wanna be original and not a copout... I suppose we all feel that way..

Your goal is not to make something similar to the others or to steal. Music is like a language, you express your thoughts and feelings but you use words and grammatical structures that already exist and it's not you who invented them. And you have to listen before you start to speak. Do you feel guilty when speaking?
The goal to be original is the biggest illusion we can have. It's possible but partially.

[surreal]

Thats a good way to think about it Lobanov.. thank you!

[dark water]

Hi Surreal,
...

https://gumroad.com/l/electronicmusicarrangementebook#

In a nutshell ... the third one explores ways to focus on manipulating energy and emotion in your arrangements (it's aimed at dance music but general ideas carry over).
...

where did you learn about the third book? i can't get no sample text or other info on this book...

On this very KVR forum itself:
viewtopic.php?t=396149

Zac / Zencha's ideas were interesting and a new way to think about music arrangements for me at that time


(And thanks surreal, good luck with your musical explorations )

[surreal]

Thank you Dark water!!

[xoxos]

get old

watch out tho, ime there's some "sorceror's apprentice" stylee to it, somewhere between wanting more evolved creativity and actually being able to do it, there was a period of years where it wouldn't stop, and i'd have the same 16 bars going all day and all night for month after month, which can become somewhat oppressive.

one learns to cultivate what's beneficial and such, to discern when the natural time and energy are right to let something flourish. then, the right moment, and there it is.

[surreal]

Correct Mr. Xoxos... but to get that timing right between inpiration and action til successful completion of the music piece is the greatest challenge which if executed within a small time frame will lead to the ultimate satisfaction! !

Thanks for chiming in here and for your input!

[bFooz]

I can recommend books here, learning harmony and orchestration http://alexanderpublishing.com/

[d1991f]

this is battle everyone faces i think the most basic way to achieve any sound is humming and laying down your melodies or chords on a piano roll or instrument and tweaking the flaws after listing to it and there is also a modal approach cause your starting note in a scale is typically how a mood starts behind your chords or fx or dramatic background but if you create something cool and cant follow up with a another ideal than chord structures from the scale your playing in will help with a sound you can accept

[woggle]

a quick tip for melodies, as you say that you are having trouble with them:

When I write melodies I always "transcribe" something from my head. Meaning, I "sing" a melody in my head and write it out in the piano roll. It takes practice but it's a great way to go. This essentially what composers have always done.

If you prefer to play your melodies in with a keyboard, try singing the melody before you play it. Sing it out loud, or try to hear it in your head before you start playing.

It will give you a good basis for a melody which you can embellish later.

I do this too - also I imagine the harmonies and then create them in the piano roll. Rhythmical structure can be tapped in without caring about the notes, then adjust the notes later.I also work with the material that I have already entered - one can get new ideas and pleasant surprises that way, but I think avoiding composing directly on one's instrument is great for improving musicality

[fmr]

I do this too - also I imagine the harmonies and then create them in the piano roll. Rhythmical structure can be tapped in without caring about the notes, then adjust the notes later.I also work with the material that I have already entered - one can get new ideas and pleasant surprises that way, but I think avoiding composing directly on one's instrument is great for improving musicality

Listening to what is in your head, before and above everything else, is a must, IMO. Knowing scales and whatever, is good - but will not help )ate least not much) in what regards melodies. Scales and chords are just one (among many other) tools. Melody is about singing. What are your favourite melodies? Pick them and try to understand how they were done? What is there that really captivated you? Then go from there, and create variations of the. You will pretty soon understand what works for you and what not.

Regarding composing in one instrument or not, I am not in favour or against it. Many composers, during history, had many different ways of coming up with great works. The great Stravinsky, to just quote someone that is closer to our time. liked to compose at the piano. When he enquired his teacher, the answer was simply "then, compose at the piano" .

Point is, your musicality isn't tied to the fact that you need an instrument or not to create. Musicality is something we develop along the years, by listening and practicing. Regarding your concerns of being original, as others pointed out already, and I agree, you have to do what others have done, before trying to do something on your own. Estabilishing the paralell with speaking and writing, you must first learning to speak, then to read and write, and only then you will be able to actually do something.

And don't fear to be influenced. Influences always existed and will exist, and we are always exposed to some influences. It's a good thing. Otherwise, we would have to be reiventing the wheel in each generation.

[woggle]

Regarding composing in one instrument or not, I am not in favour or against it. Many composers, during history, had many different ways of coming up with great works. The great Stravinbsky, to just quote someone that is closer to our time. liked to compose at the piano. When he enquired his teacher, the answer was simply "then, compose at the piano" .

whilst agreeing with you I think this part of composing at one's instrument has to be taken in context. For someone struggling with the beginning of their work I think it pays to compose away from the instrument at least a reasonable amount of time. This is to rid one of habits that instrumental playing can impose. Of course if you are virtuosic or even just highly skilled at your instrument or well practised at composing then those limits are not much of a problem. But for someone struggling to find their voice, or looking to expand their skills in invention and arrangement, working from the unaccompanied imagination is invaluable.

[surreal]

I do this too - also I imagine the harmonies and then create them in the piano roll. Rhythmical structure can be tapped in without caring about the notes, then adjust the notes later.I also work with the material that I have already entered - one can get new ideas and pleasant surprises that way, but I think avoiding composing directly on one's instrument is great for improving musicality

Listening to what is in your head, before and above everything else, is a must, IMO. Knowing scales and whatever, is good - but will not help )ate least not much) in what regards melodies. Scales and chords are just one (among many other) tools. Melody is about singing. What are your favourite melodies? Pick them and try to understand how they were done? What is there that really captivated you? Then go from there, and create variations of the. You will pretty soon understand what works for you and what not.

Regarding composing in one instrument or not, I am not in favour or against it. Many composers, during history, had many different ways of coming up with great works. The great Stravinbsky, to just quote someone that is closer to our time. liked to compose at the piano. When he enquired his teacher, the answer was simply "then, compose at the piano" .

Point is, your musicality isn't tied to the fact that you need an instrument or not to create. Musicality is something we develop among the years, by listening and practicing. Regarding your concerns of being original, as others pointed out already, and I agree, you have to do what others have done, before trying to do something on your own. Estabilishing the paralell with speaking and writing, you must first learning to speak, then to read and write, and only then you will be able to actually do something.

And don't fear to be influenced. Influences always existed and will exist, and we are always exposed to some influences. It's a good thing. Otherwise, we would have to be reiventing the wheel in each generation.

And Composing at the Piano Approach is what i tried in my latest composition..

Tell me what you folks think of the single piano pencil sketch approach!!

https://soundcloud.com/tb4c/winston-hulley-innocence

regards
Surreal

[surreal]

Thank you everyone for your inputs. Much appreciated!!

Regards
Surreal

[Atza]

Try recreating some of your favorite tunes. By doing so you will develop skills you were asking

[jancivil]

You can also recreate the music that you love.
[...] as provide[s} you with a better understanding of why you love it.

[...] highly subjective defining what is "meaningful and sensible melodies."

By recreating passages and whole compositions that you consider to be meaningful and sensible, you'll be able to isolate the things that resonated with you personally to better understand how to better convey what you wish, in your own unique way.

Was considering this approach... then I felt guilty as its like cheating.. but then its all in the learning process.. maybe I am hard on myself.. but I wanna be original and not a copout...

Your goal is not to make something similar to the others or to steal. Music is like a language, you express your thoughts and feelings but you use words and grammatical structures that already exist and it's not you who invented them. And you have to listen before you start to speak. Do you feel guilty when speaking?
The goal to be original is the biggest illusion we can have. It's possible but partially.

"original" will have to be defined in order to parlay its meaning, though, isn't it...

Music *is* a language, absolutely right you won't have originated its grammar and it will be some time (if ever) before your syntactical devices will be news to anyone. So it can't be cheating, it's absolutely necessary to recreate when you start out.

This adage has been attributed to many, incl. Stravinsky 'A good composer borrows, a great composer steals', meaning you now own that thing you took.

I agree regarding creating 'away from the instrument', but particularly as pertinent to someone at the beginning of their journey but in the currency of today, away from the computer. In fact, if you want to get a sense of melody, sing it and rely on your voice in connection with your (nascent) musical mind. I saw someone ask in another thread where to go that did not involve solfege, and my view is truly there is nowhere, that's (whether it's do re mi fa or sa re ga ma) just completely basic to get your ear working with a basic verbalization (recognition) of notes' location.
(when I make up a melody outside my room, I can notate it in saregama and an indication of, you know, is 2, 3, 6 or 7 flat or 'white'. along with a crude rhythmic notation I developed, the tune can fit on a napkin.)

Let's say your instrument is guitar. If you rely strictly on the guitar for your melody, you're liable to stay with finger patterns and the convenience of that. Which is going to limit you (and later on it may occur to you how bored you are with yourself).

This basic caveat or perhaps requirement out of the way, or course Stravinsky 'likes to touch the notes' and we'll tend to be inspired by the sound in itself. It's not necessary (or so advisable) to make a dichotomy between 'at the instrument' vs 'away from'.