can you recommend a good cheap low latency board/box

[mhog]

Again, I guess it was his computer then. Otherwise these issues would happen to every Windows10 user, right? I guess this is not the case, since they sell thousands of items.
By the way, all the other interfaces are good,

For you as a Mac user,many issues with Windows though.Can't you read?

I use them both on my 2 macs (native, no need of driver) and my 2 pc (w7 and w10) and have no issues at all. "Can read"?

Can't read for f**k sake reviews?

This is going nuts i'm out,bye.

ACTUALLY all the reviews I read are more or less enthusiastic, such as * * * * * (meaning: "five stars", not "curse" haha). Not only for the Scarlett. For the other quoted products, too. I think it's 50% real satisfaction, 50% fanboism. Sometimes there's some geek or smth complaining for "the driver" (aka: the Holy Grail of all nerds), but it always ends up it was his pc. It always happens with all products: nikon, porsche, sony, apple, korg, roland, yamaha, canon, samsung, surface, protools, mac, cubase, goodyear included. Whatever. The more popular the product, the more nerdish wars for the sake of... hype?

Again, since he made a list, I think that the little focusrite Solo is more than enough for his needs, if he wants to play music with a pc and spare money for something else (plugins, vsts, whatever). Otherwise I had suggested him even simpler and cheaper boards (Alesis, Behringer etc.). They all work pretty well.

All the other products (Scarlett 2i2, Presonus, M-audio, Steinberg etc.) have more or less the same quality in terms of audio results, but one input more. Therefore they cost a little more. As far as I know, the Focusrite products in this range (usb/home recording) have the lowest latency (I guess 7ms, while the others have about 10ms latency) but it's just numbers, since no human being can however perceive a real difference under 30ms. So this is not a real criterion for selection IMO. In case of external recording, all have direct monitor, Focusrite Solo included. I don't know about "drivers"

[kevvvvv]

The Amazon reviews for the Focusrite Scarlett Solo (2nd Gen) USB Audio Interface are worth the read. There's enough of them, even one from a grandpa who bought one for his grand daughter.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Focusrite-Scar ... op?ie=UTF8

The lowest latency is the bit that appeals to me. Latency is all.

It was good to know there's a guitarist who can play along to youtube as well, which shows that scarlett works with all internal sound sources as well as external ones.

I don't need all the extras - they're just marketing junk to me (who needs pro tools when you've got studio one )

I expect it'll be a dog to install as all computer equipment always is, at least until it's settled down. I even had probs with NI's S25 Kontrol which took ages to get the drivers right, but got there in the end.

This has been one helluva thread. So useful. Thanks all

[Kaine]

As far as I know the Scarlet audio boards have the lowest latency among consumer interfaces.

They are using the core audio implementation over on the Mac, so performance is pretty much in line with everything else, thanks to the Mac's more level playing field when it comes to drivers.

It's running the same off the shelf Xmos controller solution found in lots of cheap (and to be fair quite a few not so cheap) interfaces and performance off the Xmos series is functional on the PC but never reaches the level of firms that build their own controller solutions and optimize their own drivers. The cost distinction you posted isn't so much between consumer and pro, the more expensive kit tends to get all it's hardware R&D and driver development done in house, so they have to maintain more costly programmers and development alongside their hardware R&D team, that some of the more budget focused firms may not have to deal with to the same extent.

So whats the advantage of in house? Well apart better performing drivers, length of support tends to be longer, When Xmos revisions get killed off, that's it, no more development and your interface won't be getting updates for the next OS release. RME (we're back there again) continue to develop their drivers for as long as they can. I've been running a RME 9632 in my main machine for about 12 years now, my last driver update was a few months ago and it's still within the top 10 performing audio interface drivers on the PC.

With that in mind, was my costly £400 outlay in 2005 a bad choice?

Compared with my Terratec EWS 64 bought 3 years before for £150 and already legacy by that point? I'd say so.

Anyhow, the selling point of the Focusrite is that it offers a reasonable signal path and I/O on a functional interface for not a lot of money, a job it does well and more than justifies its sales figures.

If OP said they wanted a cheap all round recording solution for under £/$150 I'd agree with you, but for mostly in the box work it might not prove to be the best fit.

OP - if you can live without any inputs, the Native Instruments KA2 is a twin output USB device with the tightest latency you'll see under £/$200 (and it's far less than £/$200 to buy)

The bigger brother KA6 is a more rounded solution at double the price and has a decent selection of I/O.

However my budget pick (if your budget allows £/$250ish) is the Zoom UAC 2, who's performance punches far, far above its weight, with the added benefit that the converters at that price point are pretty respectable too and certainly the best I've listed so far.

Steinberg UR series and the Roland Duo's/Quads perform above average too.

Nowhere in the industry is the adage of "Price / Performance / Features = pick 2" more true than with audio interfaces.

All the other products (Scarlett 2i2, Presonus, M-audio, Steinberg etc.) have more or less the same quality in terms of audio results, but one input more. Therefore they cost a little more. As far as I know, the Focusrite products in this range (usb/home recording) have the lowest latency (I guess 7ms, while the others have about 10ms latency) but it's just numbers, since no human being can however perceive a real difference under 30ms. So this is not a real criterion for selection IMO. In case of external recording, all have direct monitor, Focusrite Solo included. I don't know about "drivers"

I know plenty of players who can hear 15ms and ask for it to be lower.
For real time monitoring 15ms is enough to throw off guitarists.
I know drummers who stuggle dealing 10ms. Sure you can't hear it, but you can feel it whilst monitoring.

As you reduce the buffer setting you get tighter latency, but less performance available from the system as the CPU is worked harder. A good interface will be capable of offering you more tracks at lower latency settings. An excellent interface at a 64 buffer can offer you twice the performance when compared with a bad one, with less latency overall.

When we rattle on about X interface hitting 3.2ms over USB on a 64 buffer (Zoom UAC2 beats this with ease) its not always that we're excited being able to work at that level, its the fact we know we can raise it to a 256 buffer and still expect 7ms. As oppose to using an interface that starts 7ms @ 64 buffer and jumps to 24ms at a 256 buffer.

Buffer settings are not equal either. Some interfaces can do 70 channels of X at a 64 buffer, some can do 120 channels of X at a 64 buffer. The overall performance capabilities of an interface is the point where all these metrics meet.

I think someone linked Vin's audio interface comparison chart a few pages back, thats about as close as anyone has got to dealing with I/O performance at a tech critique level, although even then it can't take into account converter quality and signal path as that's a little more subjective.

[kevvvvv]

Hmmm .... as if to make matters worse, now in my email is this special offer:

Presonus are offering the following bundle free to Presonus hardware owners, and that includes AudioBox

https://www.kvraudio.com/news/presonus- ... ixer-36643

Now, do I really need a Lexicon plate, or an Eventide Harmonizer, or even Arturia's Analog Lab Lite?

.....

What Kaine is saying about latency is surprisingly true.

A standard violin has a 7ms bow attack, while a cello has 15ms. And these differences in attack are very audible if they're wrong, especially when played fast.

[Dominus]

OP - if you can live without any inputs, the Native Instruments KA2 is a twin output USB device with the tightest latency you'll see under £/$200 (and it's far less than £/$200 to buy)

The bigger brother KA6 is a more rounded solution at double the price and has a decent selection of I/O.

Is that the NI TA2, rather than KA2? (Traktor Audio 2)

So whats the advantage of in house? Well apart better performing drivers, length of support tends to be longer, When Xmos revisions get killed off, that's it, no more development and your interface won't be getting updates for the next OS release. RME (we're back there again) continue to develop their drivers for as long as they can. I've been running a RME 9632 in my main machine for about 12 years now, my last driver update was a few months ago and it's still within the top 10 performing audio interface drivers on the PC.

With that in mind, was my costly £400 outlay in 2005 a bad choice?

Compared with my Terratec EWS 64 bought 3 years before for £150 and already legacy by that point? I'd say so.

After trying all the $200-$300ish cards and boxes (M-Audio, EMU, Terratec, ESI, Avid, Focusrite, MOTU, etc.), I spent $350 on a used RME PCI-based Multiface in 2011. It worked great for the two years I used it, then I sold it.. (for exactly what I paid for it!) and picked up a used Fireface 400 for $350. Another $30 for a PCIe Firewire card, and I've got something that will last me for years to come. Aside from the Focusrite, I didn't *hate* any of the interfaces, but I was never completely satisfied either. Latency is a big thing for me, I play guitar and any delay is maddening. MOTU was okay, but I liked RME's driver longevity better.

Nowhere in the industry is the adage of "Price / Performance / Features = pick 2" more true than with audio interfaces.

You explained it much more calmly than I could. I'm sure he'll be back.

[mhog]

What Kaine is saying about latency is surprisingly true.

A standard violin has a 7ms bow attack, while a cello has 15ms. And these differences in attack are very audible if they're wrong, especially when played fast.

Of course I was talking of vst instruments (computer latency while playing your vsti in your daw tracks), not of recording latency (external instruments recorded live in a DAW via A/D converters). In this case, direct monitor comes to the aid (but I guess it's well known).

[mhog]

Aside from the Focusrite, I didn't *hate* any of the interfaces, but I was never completely satisfied either. Latency is a big thing for me, I play guitar and any delay is maddening. MOTU was okay, but I liked RME's driver longevity better.

I'm sure he'll be back.

The fact is that Kevvvvv DOES NOT PLAY GUITAR and has no need to record any other external instruments, that's why he just asked: can you recommend a good cheap low latency board/box? (in order to play his virtual instruments within his DAW)

WHAT THE HECK HAVE THE $1000 PROFESSIONAL RME BOARDS TO DO WITH ALL THAT?!!

As I wrote, the Scarlett SOLO is even too much for his real needs, since it comes with 48V phantom and preamps. If I were him I would go for something simpler, like the little ALESIS CORE 1 or the M-Audio M-TRACK

[Dominus]

I'm sure he'll be back.

The fact is that Kevvvvv DOES NOT PLAY GUITAR and has no need to record any other external instruments, that's why he just asked: can you recommend a good cheap low latency board/box? (in order to play his virtual instruments within his DAW)

WHAT THE HECK HAVE THE $1000 PROFESSIONAL RME BOARDS TO DO WITH ALL THAT?!!

"What's wrong with you people? I can find interfaces for $100! Why can't you understand that?"



Since you can't wrap your head around this... (Like *every* knowledgeable person in this thread has mentioned in a more polite manner) -

Your suggestions suck.
You don't understand latency or drivers.

Edit - Kaine is in the business of building audio computers. I used to be in that business. We have just a *little* bit of experience with this stuff. We know what customers *need*, and do our best to make sure they're doing that. Looking at kevvvvv's signature, and knowing his posting history over the years, he's serious about what he's doing. He's not a poor hobbyist. He invests in the tools he needs. A good interface is a necessity. Maybe once you get more experience, you'll understand that time=money. I lost weeks of productivity dicking around with Focusrite when the Scarlett series first came out. (As did many others. I've posted a few links as examples, and could find many more.) I learned my lesson. Just because you haven't been burned doesn't make us wrong.

[mhog]

Again, you are talking like a brain surgeon or a professional producer with a mission? Mate, it's rather embarassing. 99,9% of people here are amateur home recording musicians.

Maybe once you get more experience, you'll understand that time=money

What the heck are you talking about? haha

[kokotte]

+1 for Rme, if you buy a used fireface, you must be care about the psu unit, rme pcie card are really top(price/quality).

[mhog]

+1 for Rme, if you buy a used fireface, you must be care about the psu unit, rme pcie card are really top(price/quality).

Except RME does not come out with $100 consumer products, as far as I know. RME audio interfaces are all professional, for studios and such, and all in the $1000-3000 range. I wonder why a home recording musician (hobbist) should buy it, apart for showing up...

[kevvvvv]

mhog

Kevvvvv DOES NOT PLAY GUITAR and has no need to record any other external instruments, that's why he just asked:

Funnily enough kev does play guitar. Trained in classical (think Back to Albeniz), but suckled on everything from Dylan to John Martyn.

But I hate recording live, same as I never enjoyed gigging. Not cut out for it.

But I do like to dream up an idea on guitar, then remember it, and try it in midi from memory. That's fun. Recording in my head

But perfectly right about my limited needs.

Lowest latency means keyboard playing doesn't come hours later after my fingers touch

I also dig the way everyone here has passionate views, and starts side threads. And still manages to avoid exploding.

I know that if someone slagged Studio One I'd squeal like you just tazered my dog

[mhog]

Lowest latency means keyboard playing doesn't come hours later after my fingers touch

Well, in this case I guess even on-board pc audio interfaces do the work nowadays, with lower buffer and "asio for all" installed. At least, that's what they say. I guess it depends on the fact nowadays computer are powerful and fast enough to manage this internal process without big latency (meaning: the more powerful and fast the pc, the lower latency you can get. I am not sure, though).

[BertKoor]

Isn't that funny... Kevvv asks literally for a "good cheap low latency" card, and it turns out that latency is not utmost important, and budget is flexible. Then mhog suggests something that ain't no good either

[mhog]

Isn't that funny... Kevvv asks literally for a "good cheap low latency" card, and it turns out that latency is not utmost important, and budget is flexible. Then mhog suggests something that ain't no good either

It's because most of people here call "latency" the echo you perceive while playing an external instrument or singing in a DAW recording session. That's why "direct monitoring" exists. The "low latency" he refers to is instead the delay between the keys pushed on a master keyboard and the sound made by the vst instrument. What I suggest is more than enough: 7-10ms latency ($100 consumer audio interfaces) and $900 saved