Next Propellerhead Reason upgrade (9.5) to include VST support

[krucial]

again, the education most Reason die-hards are about to get in the music-production Industry is hilarious.

Awesome to watch a completely out of touch user base finally get schooled on what's happening in the real world.

Their weird attitudes over the last many (about 7) years makes it easy to relish in their scrambling.

Most die hard Reason folks have other DAWs and are quite aware of whats available in the VST world. But they love Reason which is why there were constant request for VST in Reason. Who may actually get an education are VST snobs who may start using Reason when they are exposed to the many wonderful REs and how they integrate with Reason and each other.

[kmonkey]

Most die hard Reason folks have other DAWs and are quite aware of whats available in the VST world. But they love Reason which is why there were constant request for VST in Reason. Who may actually get an education are VST snobs who may start using Reason when they are exposed to the many wonderful REs and how they integrate with Reason and each other.

[/quote]

Umm i think what you said is actually extremely like extremely small amount of Reason users. Just look at Reasontalk forum and public "atmosphere" in past post archive - no you don't watch after PH made VST announcement.

Almost 95% people there genuinely is (or was) under impression that RE is superior to VST and that their instruments are superior to VST instruments. Few people tried to explain them but they got burned.

They even go so far to claim that (another example) Zebra synth and such pedigree is not needed in Reason because they have better -

Like i said i can't wait for them to realize how much more VST instances of Softube CL1B (as one example) can they run and compare that to same RE effect (no don't try to tell me that Softube could not optimize RE and it's Softube fault - we know it's RE SDK).

Or imagine when they realize how much other people enjoyed with other vastly superior products for decades. Zebra, Diva, Satin, Reaktor - to name a few..

Allow me to clear my standpoint - I love Reason, worked with it in past and i closely read every post in old PH forum and new Reasontalk and i surely enjoy latest news.


But you can't sold here that claim to anyone: that Reason users are advanced people with more DAWs - no no no it was actually other way around. They where closed minded the same way Reason was. Apologies to exception like eXode and other super nice and highly skilled people.

[krucial]

Most die hard Reason folks have other DAWs and are quite aware of whats available in the VST world. But they love Reason which is why there were constant request for VST in Reason. Who may actually get an education are VST snobs who may start using Reason when they are exposed to the many wonderful REs and how they integrate with Reason and each other.

Umm i think what you said is actually extremely like extremely small amount of Reason users. Just look at Reasontalk forum and public "atmosphere" in past post archive - no you don't watch after PH made VST announcement.

Almost 95% people there genuinely is (or was) under impression that RE is superior to VST and that their instruments are superior to VST instruments. Few people tried to explain them but they got burned.

They even go so far to claim that (another example) Zebra synth and such pedigree is not needed in Reason because they have better -

Like i said i can't wait for them to realize how much more VST instances of Softube CL1B (as one example) can they run and compare that to same RE effect (no don't try to tell me that Softube could not optimize RE and it's Softube fault - we know it's RE SDK).

Or imagine when they realize how much other people enjoyed with other vastly superior products for decades. Zebra, Diva, Satin, Reaktor - to name a few..

Allow me to clear my standpoint - I love Reason, worked with it in past and i closely read every post in old PH forum and new Reasontalk and i surely enjoy latest news.


But you can't sold here that claim to anyone: that Reason users are advanced people with more DAWs - no no no it was actually other way around. They where closed minded the same way Reason was. Apologies to exception like eXode and other super nice and highly skilled people.

Exactly. The forums are an extremely small group representing and whole world of Reason users. Look at the forums its the same set of people posting. We do not know for sure what percentage of Reason users are represented there but even PH said their forums when it was active represented a very tiny percentage of active Reason users. No Reason users are not in some bubble like the rest of you want to believe. I am a diehard Reason user who also use other DAWs, hardware and iPad apps.

I just check Reasontalk at this time they have 4644 registered users. You honestly believe this represents majority Reason users? If it does what percentage of these users are not aware of what is available in VST land?

Come on.

[Kalamata Kid]

Good news for Reason.
I will now review it to see if can use it.

I wish that NI Reaktor will also be able to host VST's.

[LawrenceF]

Exactly. The forums are an extremely small group .

True.

Every internet forum is an extremely small group when it come to software that is in the hands of (for the kinds of popular workstations being typically discussed) literally many thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people. You could have 200+ people on a given forum agreeing with something (good luck with that ) and it would still only likely amount to a fraction of 1% of registered users.

Short of a legitimate poll of all registered users, any perception otherwise is delusional.

[ghettosynth]

Good news for Reason.
I will now review it to see if can use it.

I wish that NI Reaktor will also be able to host VST's.

No doubt! Especially if this were also available when it was being used AS a plugin. Even better if it could create a plugin or standalone runtime of an ensemble. I doubt that will ever happen though.

[TabSel]

Reaktor being able to host plugins will be the day I forgive them ditching Kore and finally spend money on their products again.

[memyselfandus]

Can someone confirm if drag n drop midi works? Lots of people asking

[kmonkey]

I just check Reasontalk at this time they have 4644 registered users. You honestly believe this represents majority Reason users?

No no i don't. I said you can get "mentality"...and i am building opinion on facts which are: everything i said you can check there it's there on forum. If you find different picture of Reason users mentality then what i said (close minded) - something is wrong with your logic then.

What? Now you are going to expect me that i should believe claim of single internet user (you). Which is that Reason users are multiple DAW specialist - based on ...just what you said rather then what i can see through posts of 4644 individual people???

Come on!

You get my point now?

[krucial]

I just check Reasontalk at this time they have 4644 registered users. You honestly believe this represents majority Reason users?

No no i don't. I said you can get "mentality"...and i am building opinion on facts which are: everything i said you can check there it's there on forum. If you find different picture of Reason users mentality then what i said (close minded) - something is wrong with your logic then.

What? Now you are going to expect me that i should believe claim of single internet user (you). Which is that Reason users are multiple DAW specialist - based on ...just what you said rather then what i can see through posts of 4644 individual people???

Come on!

You get my point now?

Your point is simple not valid. Its not based on facts or logic. You are using a very tiny tiny group of individuals to justify your claim. Simply put its baseless. And by the way, on that forum you referenced majority of the users are happy with VST in 9.5. On Youtube they are happy, on facebook they are happy. If they have a certain mentality why are so many of them happy? Please answer this.

Lets shutdown your argument and be done with it. Why implement the number one requested feature from majority of your users if these said users have a mentality of seeing VST as inferior based on "facts" on a tiny forum? Why are these close minded users constantly overwhelmingly requesting VST in the first place? Who would PH listen to more? The small group of closed minded folks or the majority who want access to VST? Please answer this.

You tried to use a tiny group to justify your idea of the type of people Reason users are. No, the majority are not a closed minded ignorant bunch and if you still want to use a tiny forum to justify such claim, please note the same forum is filled with happy users.

You still think you have a valid point?

[ShawnG]

I just check Reasontalk at this time they have 4644 registered users. You honestly believe this represents majority Reason users?

No no i don't. I said you can get "mentality"...and i am building opinion on facts which are: everything i said you can check there it's there on forum. If you find different picture of Reason users mentality then what i said (close minded) - something is wrong with your logic then.

What? Now you are going to expect me that i should believe claim of single internet user (you). Which is that Reason users are multiple DAW specialist - based on ...just what you said rather then what i can see through posts of 4644 individual people???

Come on!

You get my point now?

the majority of that 4644 people don't even post. you can only logically form an opinion of the mentality of the individuals who are posting, not extrapolated to the group. for example I'm forming an opinion of your mentality based on your posts on this topic. but it would be wrong to say that you represent the majority of VST users.

[ghettosynth]

Lets shutdown your argument and be done with it. Why implement the number one requested feature from majority of your users if these said users have a mentality of seeing VST as inferior based on "facts" on a tiny forum? Why are these close minded users constantly overwhelmingly requesting VST in the first place? Who would PH listen to more? The small group of closed minded folks or the majority who want access to VST? Please answer this.

Not that I'm agreeing with either pov, but, this is not inconsistent. People want VSTs, they believe that they can't get VSTs, so they will justify their chosen platform by convincing themselves that what they have is better.

We do know that some people think props plugins are "better" than at least some VSTs. Thor and REV7000 get a lot of love, even around here. Neither is really killer from my POV.

You tried to use a tiny group to justify your idea of the type of people Reason users are.

But it is "a" group. We don't really have solid evidence one way or the other. Even relying on "the number one requested feature" isn't reliable. That may or may not be a majority. I've never in my life requested a feature but I've been a user since version five. Well, an on again off again casual user. Further, it is not incongruent to want VSTs and still believe that REs are better. There could be any number of reasons for preferring VSTs to REs. Simply cost and variety may be factors.

Neither sample set is necessarily "representative" of the user population. To the extent that either is, at the very least, the forum population gives us a snapshot of opinions that is deeper than whether or not users want VSTs. Both are evidence in some limited sense, at the very least, they are more evidence than no evidence. However, they are insufficient to draw any sort of reliable statistical conclusion either way.

I think that it is fair to say that many Reason only users are going to get an education. I have friends like that, you may or may not have those friends. I'm making no claim that my friends are representative, but, they are outspoken with regard to how much they love props.

[krucial]

I think that it is fair to say that many Reason only users are going to get an education. I have friends like that, you may or may not have those friends. I'm making no claim that my friends are representative, but, they are outspoken with regard to how much they love props.

Or they simple may not get an education because if they are such diehards they will remain Reason and RE only users and continue to not look in the directions of VSTs. And yes I know this tiny bunch exist.

[ghettosynth]

I think that it is fair to say that many Reason only users are going to get an education. I have friends like that, you may or may not have those friends. I'm making no claim that my friends are representative, but, they are outspoken with regard to how much they love props.

Or they simple may not get an education because if they are such diehards they will remain Reason and RE only users and continue to not look in the directions of VSTs. And yes I know this tiny bunch exist.

Well sure, but I wouldn't take that bet because when Reason gets VST support then VSTs will be valid in the eye of reason users. They will try them and I don't for a minute believe that they are all deaf.

[krucial]

I think that it is fair to say that many Reason only users are going to get an education. I have friends like that, you may or may not have those friends. I'm making no claim that my friends are representative, but, they are outspoken with regard to how much they love props.

Or they simple may not get an education because if they are such diehards they will remain Reason and RE only users and continue to not look in the directions of VSTs. And yes I know this tiny bunch exist.

Well sure, but I wouldn't take that bet because when Reason gets VST support then VSTs will be valid in the eye of reason users. They will try them and I don't for a minute believe that they are all deaf.

Fair enough.