If Roland made a D50 vst emulation, would you purchase it?

[Ingonator]

A big part of certain D-50 patches like e.g. "Staccato Heaven" is also from the awesome Chorus FX. If you switch this off most of the "magic" seems to be gone. If you also switch of the Reverb it gets even worse.
With the Chorus added this sounds realyl "big" and beautiful and has a great stereo width.

That's also a reason why the same preset with the "LA-50" Kontakt library does not sound as great as with the D-50 emulation as the LA-50 uses the Chorus from Kontakt and not a sample of the real one.
If i add a nice sounding external Chorus like e.g. ERS Dim D (= Roland Dimension D Chorus) the result gets better but it'S still not the same as wit hteh D-50 plugin.

Besides that the D-50 also included dedicated PWM which did not seem to be included with later Roland ROMplers except as a samle of the PWM.

Independent of the impact of the built-in FXs also replicating the basic sound with another synth does not really seem to be a simple task. At the end it'S the sum of the parts that creates the final sound and in the case of the D-50 this could be really great.

FWIW as mentioned earlier the D-50 plugin does not just contain the original 64 factory presets but 6 banks with overall 384 patches.

[Ingonator]

Aftertouch isn't working for me, but the modwheel is working. The cloud D50 sound exactly like the real d50 to my ears... at least from what I can remember a few years ago when I owned the hardware.

Does aftertouch not work for all patches? With patches where this is activated it seems to work here. With the first patch called "Fantasia" the aftertouch has a quite big effect when i use it. Pitchbend is working here too.

I am using NI Komplete Kontrol S61 as a main controller here and with my Novation Ultranova the aftertouch works too in the D-50 plugin.

With the Roland "Anthology 1987" sample library aftertouch indeed did not seem to work, opposing to the new full featured D-50 emulation..

[Kumi_27]

This is probably the original DSP code with original ROM content.
And Roland didn't figured out yet, how to transmit sysex because the code is 30 years old and no one understands it anymore, they just threw it into some digital circuit simulator

If they knew how sysex worked 30 years ago, they still know...

Whole hardware synth is a bit more than the sound engine, because there are parts and code for handling the hardware switches, knobs, keybed or display. And of course MIDI, including sysex.
Most of it in the plugin is left or changed to different, software conterparts.

But if they ported only the DSP part of the code, the sysex won't work - and it's not working now, right?

[Ingonator]

But if they ported only the DSP part of the code, the sysex won't work - and it's not working now, right?

As mentioned above the fact that Syex is not included yet does not mean it is impossible to add it.
AFAIK there was no official startement yet if it would be possible or not and/or if and when they want to add it.

Sysex import was included with plugins like e.g. Korg Wavestation, Arturia Prophet 5 (at least until V2.5 and V-Collection 4), Arturia Prophet VS (at least until V2.5 and V-Collection 4) and SQ-8L (= SQ-80 and ESQ-1 emulation).

[ghettosynth]

This is probably the original DSP code with original ROM content.
And Roland didn't figured out yet, how to transmit sysex because the code is 30 years old and no one understands it anymore, they just threw it into some digital circuit simulator

If they knew how sysex worked 30 years ago, they still know...

Whole hardware synth is a bit more than the sound engine, because there are parts and code for handling the hardware switches, knobs, keybed or display. And of course MIDI, including sysex.
Most of it in the plugin is left or changed to different, software conterparts.

But if they ported only the DSP part of the code, the sysex won't work - and it's not working now, right?

Yes and if you've never peeked inside of a synth from those days it was very common to use multiple microprocessors to solve tasks. Actually, that's no less common today. However, it makes sense that the DSP port was the primary thing emulated in it's purest form and that will undoubtedly take parameters from whatever was managing the front panel and display. That latter code probably isn't of much interest to the plugin devs so it wasn't directly ported, there's no real reason to work that hard to get parameter inputs.

[fmr]

Of the three big (as I see it) Japanese manufacturers, Korg has been very prolific, Roland is now gathering speed, so where is Yamaha?

Are they content with being Steinbergs banker, and the emus out there like NI's FM8 is enough?

If you consider Steinberg as the "software division" of Yamaha, they are far from being absent. HALion, which was recently launched, is a fantastic instrument. And they have others in the line.

Of course, I would love to have emulations of some Yamaha stuff crafted by Yamaha, and with some "shortcomings" solved. Things like SY99, FS1R or EX5 would be great to have as virtual instruments. And some of the new technologies present in Montage are absolutely fantastic.

[fmr]

Sysex import was included with plugins like e.g. Korg Wavestation, Arturia Prophet 5 (at least until V2.5 and V-Collection 4), Arturia Prophet VS (at least until V2.5 and V-Collection 4) and SQ-8L (= SQ-80 and ESQ-1 emulation).

And DeXed (emulation of DX7) and PG-8X (emulation of Roland JX-8P).

[Ingonator]

FWIW i you asked about Sysex import for the D-50 plugin at official support besides asking about it at Facebook today (where i did not receive a reply yet...).

I had alraedy contacted support two times concerning the subscription process and the Cloud Manager and got a reply quite fast (and it was helpful too...).

[ghettosynth]

A big part of certain D-50 patches like e.g. "Staccato Heaven" is also from the awesome Chorus FX. If you switch this off most of the "magic" seems to be gone. If you also switch of the Reverb it gets even worse.
With the Chorus added this sounds realyl "big" and beautiful and has a great stereo width.

Yep, this has always been fairly well appreciated. That is, it's well known that the effects are a big part of the sound. It's very true with the JD-800 as well.

Not that I'm any more impressed, per se. It's still late 80s DSP based effects and certainly not the top of the line even from that era. The biggest barrier to replicating the D50 isn't technological, it has always been Roland's stance on the issue.

I'm not surprised that a simple Kontakt library doesn't come close, that is hardly the state of the art. If someone else were doing a clone that's not even the best way to go about it. There are no multi-samples so there's little point in using a full sampler engine.

What you have is simply an unsolvable conundrum in that no developer of talent is able to create an emulation because Roland would never grant a license, and without that, there's not much interest in emulating the rest of the technology.

That doesn't mean that it's a particularly difficult problem, in fact, I don't think that it is really. I think that beyond the factory patches, it's pretty easy to come close to the D-50 such that you couldn't tell the difference. That's always the issue with factory patches, especially ones so familiar, you will pick up on small differences that you wouldn't necessarily pick up on otherwise.

[beely]

One of the things the plugin really needs (apart from sysex support) is a way to copy partials and tones within a patch (and between patches).

Here's an example of why I just stumbled upon:

So I start with an initialised plain tone, and switch on partial 1 only. I decide play with the S synthesis and get a nice plucky synth sound.

Ok, so now I think, lets add a PCM transient onto partial 2 so I can have a D50-hybrid attack sound. Only you can't. There is no S+P structure. The closest you can get is a S + (R)P (ie, the transient will be ring modulated), which is not what i want.

Ok, so it turns out I need to use the P+S structure (PCM on partial 1, Synth on partial 2).

But, I can't copy my nice S partial onto partial 2, in order use partial 1 for the PCM transient. The only thing I can do, as far as I can see, is *screenshot* my existing S partial, switch to the P+S structure, and rebuild parameter by parameter the partial I already made from the screenshot.

Now yes, in future, I can remember to always use partial 2 for a VA patch in case I need to add a PCM transient, but a few menu items to copy partials between tones, and away to within a patch call up other tones from patches in the same bank would be a lot less painful.

I'm really digging the plugin for those sounds the D50 excels at, and it sounds way better than any D50 sample library I've heard (pretty much all of them).

[AlesisVi61]

I actually have two soft-synth versions of the D-50 and I never played it or knowingly heard it from any artist on the radio,at the time...as I've been totally unfamiliar with it...ever since it came out back in '87.
Actually...I could not care a less,about the D-50...but bought it anyway. Why you may ask?Well...I bought both UVI's Digital Synsations 2 and Synth Anthology and the D-50 just happened to be thrown in with many other synths.
Now that I've played it,it's interesting to me,especially since the version in Digital Synsations 2,is a beefed up version of the original.It's actually a combination of the original synth and it's modular counterpart and not only was it sampled to perfection,there is also new content in it.
I bought the Digital Synsations 2 for the Ensonique Fizmo and the Kawai K5000....but the D-50 is unique and very useful.
I bought the Synthology 2,because it has Alesis and Akai synths(among many others)...so that said,I voted Yes,that I would buy the D-50 if it were reasonably priced...because inadvertently,it was!

[Klinke1]

This was an official answer from Roland Virtual Sonics (the company behind Roland Cloud) at Facebook 3 days ago concernig single purchases:

Roland Cloud Dear Axel, the reason we don't offer single sales is that we are a service and not a store. The reasons for this will become more apparent as one uses the service. We suggest you give it a try. And if cloud computing is not for you, consider a purchase of our range of hardware synthesizers. We offer something for everyone and every style of creativity.

But with Roland Cloud, the future is in connectivity because at the operating system level, computers are now designed to be connected. Roland is embracing this connectivity even as we pioneered MIDI.

The capabilities we offer (and plan to offer) go beyond the paradigm of a single computer. Cloud processing and services is what we feel is the bright solution for all of us in music.

Specifically, the capabilities we offer now for just $19.95 per month compete with thousands of dollars in outright purchases. We also support our software 24/7 and we are adding value with each new product that is included in the base membership. Of course, some of our customers have the means to buy tens of thousands of dollars in hardware and software, but we believe in the accessibility and the low cost economic model of shared computing. Cloud means that more people will be able to make and participate in music at a professional level. We think that is a great thing. At Roland, we design the future.

-Jeremy Soule, Corporate Director, Roland Virtual Sonics

FWIW at their Facebook page there are alraedy several requests for having seperate purchases. I mentioned it too there today, at least for the D-50.

FWIW there does not seem to be an official reply concerning D-50 Sysex support yet.

I'm not one to swear, but this response from Roland is complete and utter bullshit and they know it. They want to lock you into dependence on their cloud based tools so you'll have to keep paying forever and ever. I'm sure they're hinting at a cloud-based DAW/collaboration platform where all your songs and way of working with other people is also locked up in their subscription service. Others have tried and failed, and I doubt this will be any different. It isn't like collaboration is actually difficult using existing means, and there is a world full of alternatives for making music. They don't have the market sewn up the way Adobe did, and when it comes to DAWs and VST, they are actually the outsiders. Furthermore, their claims of their service competing against "thousands of dollars" or even "tens of thousands of dollars" is absurd and disingenuous. Komplete Ultimate comes to mind.

I pay my monthly dues to Adobe because I don't have a choice. And now I pay my annual maintenance to The Foundry for Modo, and Allegorithmic for Substance Suite, because I need them for my job. I'd jump at a boutique hardware D-50, or even an outright purchase of a plugin if the price was reasonable. There is no way I will ever get suckered into Roland's cloud pipe dream.

So.. RolandCloud won't sell as singles ..but there are already several synths in the RolandContentStore.. as singles.
All they have to do is place it there..at some point in time.

(Or Cloud is doing "mutiny on the Roland-Bounty"!?)

[Examigan]

I think if it was between $100-150 many people would buy it.

[Psyclapse]

Cloud subs only? That's a shame, I don't do the never-never.

[Ingonator]

I actually have two soft-synth versions of the D-50 and I never played it or knowingly heard it from any artist on the radio,at the time...as I've been totally unfamiliar with it...ever since it came out back in '87.
Actually...I could not care a less,about the D-50...but bought it anyway. Why you may ask?Well...I bought both UVI's Digital Synsations 2 and Synth Anthology and the D-50 just happened to be thrown in with many other synths.
Now that I've played it,it's interesting to me,especially since the version in Digital Synsations 2,is a beefed up version of the original.It's actually a combination of the original synth and it's modular counterpart and not only was it sampled to perfection,there is also new content in it.
I bought the Digital Synsations 2 for the Ensonique Fizmo and the Kawai K5000....but the D-50 is unique and very useful.
I bought the Synthology 2,because it has Alesis and Akai synths(among many others)...so that said,I voted Yes,that I would buy the D-50 if it were reasonably priced...because inadvertently,it was!

The new Roland D-50 emulation is the first proper emulation that emulates the full synth engine with all parameters.

UVI Digital Synsations like the other UVI "emulations" is a sample library with a nice scripted GUI added.

There are also several nice Kontakt libraries with a nice scripted GUI but at the end those are still sample libraries.

FWIW i got UVI Falcon but that is a full featured synth with tons of features.

With a sample you could hardly emulate the PWM of the D-50 as included with the new Roland D-50 emulation. With samples could could just capture PWM at fixed settings.

Creating D-50 patches from scratch including all original parameters (and there are quite a lot) should be only possible with the official D-50 plugin too.
This also includes all original PCM ROM samples of the D-50 being available which was forbidden by Roland to be included with products by other developers.